121: Talking insurance with Laci Phillips

Welcome to the navigating dental insurance podcast where we don't [music] take from insurance companies. Here are your hosts, Mr. Jordan Comstock and Mr. Ben Tuinei. >> [music] >> This podcast is sponsored by BoomCloud Dental Membership Software, www.boomcloudapps.com, [music] and Veritas Dental Resources, www.veritasdentalresources.com. [music] Enjoy the show. >> Welcome to another exciting episode of the navigating dental insurance podcast. I am your co-host today, Jordan Comstock. With me, I got Mr. Ben Tuinei. What's up, Benjamin? >> Hey there, what's up, Jordan? What's up, everybody? Welcome to another

episode. We're recovering from the Voices of Dentistry. Boy, that was a great conference. >> Yeah, yeah, I think I stayed up like till like 2:30, 3:00 every night at the at Voices of Dentistry, just hanging out and networking. Such a good group of people. >> Yeah, I was an old man and went to bed. After we had dinner at Four Banh Mi Challenge, I went straight to straight to bed. I did get up at 5:00. >> Yeah, I stayed up cuz Genevieve Poppie showed up and

we hung out with her. And then uh I think like a bunch of other people showed up and so we just kept hanging out, but it was an awesome awesome event. Um if you didn't go, we missed you. Um you should go next year, 2020. I believe it's in Arizona again. But it was fantastic. We were able to meet all the all the podcasters and all of our listeners and all that fun stuff there. So >> Yeah, it was fun. >> Yeah, dude. And then you

flew right you you flew right to Was it Seattle, Ben? Right like in the middle of that. >> I went to Seattle to meet with a client up there. They had a group a doctor meeting in the afternoon. And I didn't get home till 1:00 a.m. Sunday morning. So I >> too. Me too. I'm really tired. >> didn't see you at the airport. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, cuz I got home that late, too. >> From Arizona, yeah. We just I flew in and landed around 1:00.

Yeah. >> Oh, wow. >> So we probably barely missed each other. >> Yeah, I I landed at 12:00 and I I got home right at a little bit after 1:00 in the morning. >> Yeah. >> But yeah. >> That's dedication right there for you. >> We travel so much and it's sometimes I love it and sometimes I hate it. I just kind of get sick of it sometimes, but um it's always fun traveling with you, Ben. >> [laughter] >> Down in Arizona, so. Cool. Well, today

we have an awesome guest. Her name is Lacey Phillips from Practice Dynamics. What is up, Lacey? >> Well, well, I'm having FOMO right now. I I gosh, [laughter] I wish I was up till 4:00 with you guys or getting home at 1:00 in the morning. Not. Yeah, I'm [laughter] old. I think it's great that you guys are so youthful and you're doing this. There there was a day when I thought that was fun, too. And now I'm certainly happy with 8:00 and pajamas. I'm not going

to lie. >> I'll [laughter] tell you, Lacey, that's the life right there is when you don't have to go to the airport at 5:00 in the morning and don't have to jump on a plane at midnight. I I usually dread those days and uh but you know, the nice thing about the late night flights is my flight was empty. You know, I had I had the row >> Yeah, so was ours. So was ours. Yeah. It was nice. I was like flying those late nights cuz

it's empty and you can, you know, kind of be comfortable. >> [laughter] >> Not even like really be comfortable. >> probably do that more. I'm all about the early morning flights, but those late night ones I just uh I I'm not as good. I I I'm an early morning I can do early mornings, but come I need a glass of wine and I'm tired. [laughter] >> I'm tired. That's what he thought. >> Yeah, late night will do you there. >> Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe I'm

maybe maybe some airplanes do that now. I don't know. You never know. >> [laughter] >> So, Lacey, you're with Practice Dynamics and you're you're also part of ADMC. I think that's how that's how we met is through ADMC or through SCN, one of those one of those groups. I can't remember. So, >> I'm pretty sure it was ADMC cuz it was it's been in the last what, year, 18 months? >> I I think so, yeah. And I I do I'm a member I'm a member of

ADMC and for those of you that don't know what ADMC is listening, it's Academy of Dental Management Consultants. So, it's a group of group of us that are vetted and credible in the industry, I I guess. Um and we all get together and hang out and stay up till 2:00 in the morning. Do We don't do that, right? Do we do that? [laughter] >> No, because all I told you, ADMC are all veterans. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, all right. Maybe maybe >> ADMC doesn't

stay up late. >> Yeah, that's right. That's right. >> [laughter] >> They did all their partying in college. They're like, "We We did that." >> Yeah, we did that. >> already [laughter] >> You know what? It's good. It's It's actually good right now. We have We're having some really young, dynamic, exciting speakers, consultants, key opinion leaders come and want to join ADMC right now. And that that's so good for us. >> So, maybe next year next year we'll be hanging out till 2:00 in the morning,

Lacey. That's >> I mean, I can do it. I'm not going to say I can't do it, but I can do it. >> You're just smart You're just smart enough not to want to do it. >> [laughter] >> Which is smart. >> No, I feel like I I got my I I've done it. Like I Oh, I could tell some stories about, you know, back in the day. I I could. I just I like sleep now. >> That makes sense, you know. So, Lacey, tell us

a little bit about about Practice Dynamics and how you got started with with with them and and just how you got started in dentistry. >> Oh my goodness. So, I should probably start with how I got started cuz that'll lead to practice dynamics. I actually I was going to college with a broadcasting journalism degree communications. I wanted to have my own talk show. Shocker for anybody who actually knows me. But [laughter] my my intention was to leave the state of New Mexico and move to New

York and have my own talk show. And lo and behold while I was going to college in New Mexico I long story short, I got a job as an assistant in a dental office while I was going to college. And while I was not a great dental assistant mostly because I'm not good at um Well, at the time I was not good at focusing or details. And if a good song came off came on the radio, forget about it, right? So, a chairside assistant has to

somehow find focus which I did not. But I was a great employee cuz I showed up every day. I was loyal. I actually fell in love with dentistry. So, they I like to say they promoted me to the business office. Um but there yeah, it was a it was a tumultuous day the day of my promotion. And um >> [laughter] >> I found my niche, you know, I was at the business office. I loved working with patients, answering the phone, greeting them. Um and and of

course what's crazy is like we do in dentistry, they threw me in a chair. There was a a you know, phone not a great phone system cuz it was 1992. They gave me the phone. They said, "Here, this is the name of our practice. Answer the phone and answer any questions." And that's how I got my start in insurance knowledge. Which I feel like we do with a lot of people in dentistry. We kind of snag them from other industries or like they look nice walking

down the street and we say, "Hey, you want to work in a dental office?" And we throw them [clears throat] in. >> office? >> It's a pattern. >> Seriously. Hey, little girl, [laughter] you want some candy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, little girl, you want to work in a dental office? >> [laughter] >> Well, I got some knowledge for you. I've got We'll call it candy, >> It's probably a scam, that is. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I'm answering questions about UCR and

benefits and I Somebody says to me 180 50 and my mind did not go to insurance benefits. So, you know, I kind of I grew up in the industry and I ended up Man, I ended up in Phoenix, Arizona, where I lived for 13 years, managed a couple of very high-end cosmetic practices, and had great, great mentors in the industry, ended up leaving the dental office, became a consultant, and in 2012, Bonnie Pugh and I had an amazing opportunity that came our way, and we founded

and started Practice Dynamics. >> Sweet. >> So, we are a consulting group. We work with dentists and teams across the United States. We help them become more effective and efficient with their current systems, teams, and technology. And we're all about systems. You know, the systems make the world go round, and systems can be as easy as your AM huddle. It can be how do you answer questions about insurance benefits, and how do you work with the insurance representative so that you're not beating your head against

the wall every single day. And um you know, a successful team is a happy team, and then we love our technology. So, Bonnie and I love what I love what we do. She's the brains behind this operation, and and I'm the fun one. >> [laughter] >> I've noticed I've noticed at those conferences We just got to get you out to 2:00 2:00 a.m. now. >> That's right. That's right. Absolutely. >> [laughter] >> You know what's really interesting that a lot of people that work in in

insurance or or dental management consulting, it's kind of like we were we were tricked into working into dentistry. I remember when I was recruited by the University of Arizona and a bunch of other universities to come and play football for them. You know, I I signed with the University of Arizona, but they laid out the red carpet, you know, caviar, shrimp cocktails, and all this and all that. And and then and then you show up your for your first day at practice and they start yelling

at you. It's like, [laughter] "What the heck? You don't What happened to the red carpet?" It's like, "Uh-uh, you are ours right now, you know?" >> [clears throat] >> And you know, so it's it's kind of like in dentistry, "Come and work for a beautiful dental practice, you know, we'll work with people and get them some lovely smiles, you know?" And they sprinkle glitter all and all that, you know, they sugarcoat everything. And then you get into it and it's like, "Who wants to deal with

insurance?" I mean, it is just most stressful I mean, you never go to you never talk to young single adults or young adults in general and say, "What do you want to do for a living?" You never hear people say, "I want to work with dental insurance." >> [laughter] >> You know, it's like it's like the most I don't know I don't know how to phrase it. It's It's one of those areas in the dental practice that nobody wants to work on. Nobody goes out and

and builds a career wanting to work with insurance. We're kind of tricked into it. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And you're like, "Wait, this is a big problem. I can help a lot of people, you know?" So it's like it's like cuz it is. >> You know what? I said that from the stage once and I think I offended people. And and it and I would like >> I mean, I >> insurance companies that you offended? Yeah, they work for dental >> No, I know what

I ended up I said "Very seldom are there are there little girls out there who are playing with their Barbies or their dolls and they go, 'What do you want to be when you grow up?' But then the other Barbie says, 'I wanted to be a chairside assistant.'" >> [laughter] >> Nobody does that. >> We get tricked into it. It's It It boils down to that, you know, good people You know, otherwise you won't get you won't get good people to work with you. >> [laughter]

[sighs] >> Yeah, I always say >> what I will say about it. The dental industry is a phenomenal industry. It is It is constantly changing. It is super cool. The things that we can do, not only the technology and the things that we can do, but here's what's crazy to me every single day. We literally can save lives. And I know that sounds very dramatic, but with what we know about oral systemic health now and how anything that happens in the mouth area affects the rest

of our entire body, to me that is so super exciting. It's not going anywhere, so it's a great industry to lay a foundation in because you can literally go anywhere in the world and work in dentistry. And if sitting chairside and sucking in and sitting and snuggling knees with a doctor is not your thing, there are so many other There are so many other areas in a dental office that you can totally find your thing. And I think that while while our Barbies like while we're

sitting in our princess playhouse or you know, whatever it is you have in your treehouse, um and you're not saying I want to be a chairside assistant when I grow up, finding this and being thrown into this industry is definitely not a bad gig. >> It's not. I I will tell you that You know, for those of them that that take it and run with it, you know, dentistry there's so many opportunities as you know, Lacey. It's such a fragmented industry. Fragmented meaning there's there's constant

change even among the vendor side of things. And that's because there's so many needs in dentistry and if you focus on it, you're going to deal with the hassles like any other business, you know, any other any other job that you have out there. There are going to be some days where you just hate it, but in the end, it's a really fun profession. Like I really, really enjoy being in dentistry. Um even though, you know, dealing with insurances is pretty much what we do, you

know, on my side of things. And there there are headaches that I mean there are more headaches there than almost anything else, but in the end, dentistry is it's fun. You know, you can make it work. You can make it a fruitful career. Especially if you have your kind of personality and sense of humor, Lacey. >> [laughter] >> Talk to us about your history with with dealing with insurances. So early in your day when they moved you when they quote-unquote promoted you to the business side,

um did they did you work with insurance? Is that uh >> They did. Yeah. >> How was it back Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. >> [laughter] >> I I made stuff up. I mean, I you know, patients would ask me questions and and I just came from the operatory, from, you know, removing wisdom teeth and here I have a patient on the phone with me asking about their insurance and and I just wasn't I wasn't trained. I didn't know that. So I'm I'm I kind of

faked it till I made it, right? So I have to say that you have to. But we also in dentistry, we have to get better about training our teams. And that's why I love I love the day and age that we're in right now where you can have an amazing podcast like this and you can learn from it. So and this is how we learn now, right? >> A little bit. >> So this >> [laughter] >> So this is our education now. So this gives us

the opportunity to say to team members um get yourself education. Look at listen to as many podcasts as you possibly can. Um read books about it. I I have to say I literally read Dr. Charles Blair's Coding with Confidence book like back in 2004. Literally took it on an airplane, read it from beginning to end, and uh yeah, a little sad. I know. But >> [laughter] >> I was UP TILL 4:00 IN the morning though. No, I was just >> Oh, I see. That's what Yeah,

that's what keeps you up in the morning. >> There you go. Knowledge knowledge keeps me up. No. Um but but what an amazing resource that we have for our teams now that we have that on our fingertips. So, yeah, back in 1993 when I was thrown into the business office and handed a phone and said here answer questions. And here's a phone slip and you know, call the insurance company. It it has advanced so much more than that, but yet it hasn't. You know, we we

know that if we're not utilizing amazing technology that a phone call to the dental um insurance company is going to take us up to 45 minutes to get a breakdown of benefits. And and 43 of the minutes you're on hold and you have 2 minutes to ask as many questions as you possibly can before they quote, you know, tran- transfer you and you're dis- connected. So, so while things have advanced and changed so much, on the other hand, if you don't take advan- advantage of the

advancement, it you're stuck. >> Yeah. >> You're stuck. So, I don't know that insurances changed, but dental offices have. >> Yes, yeah. You know, yesterday I had my I had an ingrown toenail on my right big toe. >> [laughter] >> And uh >> Sorry. >> It wasn't really bad until I kicked something um Sunday afternoon. And Monday morning. >> I want to know what you kicked. >> The corner of my couch. >> Okay. You like You were like pissed off and like just kicked something. >>

[laughter] >> Okay. That's kind of what I was imagining, but you were just walking. >> I was recovering from the long weekend, the the work weekend, and I and I accidentally walked into my the corner of my couch. And and you know, I Monday morning I just couldn't handle it. So, I called a podiatrist office and the first question they asked me was what insurance do you take? And to me, you know, no in dealing with insurance and and knowing unfortunately the treatment decisions that are

made depending on what kind of insurance you had, I quickly turned around and said, "I'm self pay. I will pay in cash. I will pay you your top dollar." Um, and and the conversation did change. I went into the office and it's so funny, you know, I'm sitting there in the waiting room and this podiatrist office was just like a dental office. You know, they there was so many calls from patients, new patients calling in which was a good thing, you know, that she probably had

four new patient calls within the five minutes that I was waiting there. And she had a couple of patients call. One of the patients that called was asking about why didn't you bill this to insurance. And I just got done reading their consent form. Which indicated that orthotics are not a covered benefit by their by their insurance and if it is, our office policy is that the the patient must agree to pay for the amount of pocket and seek reimbursement on their own. And that was

clearly [clears throat] defined in their consent form. And here she is the front office gal dealing with a patient that's calling just angry about the insurance benefits. You know, why didn't you bill this to insurance and that this and that. You know, I often wonder Lacey how how we do things on the dental side. Like do you advise practices to lead out with those insurance conversations when a patient calls in? Meaning when a patient calls in is it is it advised to say what insurance do

you have? Or like how what walk me through that whole thing like your recommendation on the first encounter with the patient and and and whether insurance is important or not. >> I I love I love this right here because I hate when anybody leads with that. I hate it when dental offices lead with that. I hate it when medical offices lead with that. >> Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> My kids hate going to any sort of health care with office with me at all because I

immediately go into coach mode, right? So, when I [laughter] when I call a medical office or when I walk in and they go, "What insurance do you have?" I I I take a deep breath and I smile and I say, "Do you want to know anything about me?" >> Oh, nice. >> Yeah. Nice. That's right good. I'm going to use that next time. >> What about me? >> They're like, "Hey, do you have money?" >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Did you Did you already assign me

a number? Like, am I a number? Did you already assign me the number or can I be Lacey for a minute? Or can I introduce you to my kids who you're going to see today? And And the same is true with dental offices. And so, while I'm I'm not I I would never tell everybody that you have to read from a script, everything I say I don't, but I believe you have to have a template to keep you on track. And then you 100% make it

your own, right? So, and even when the patient says, and I teach this from the stage, I teach it to clients, when the patient says, when you answer the phone, you're all excited, oh my god, I love my job, I love it love it, I'm going to answer the phone with the best verbal skills ever, and the first thing the patient says to you is, "Hey, do you take my insurance?" It's deflating. >> Yeah. >> It literally deflates us. But, who He who is in control

of the conversation wins, right? So, you take a deep breath and you smile and you say, "I am happy to tell you that we partner with most dental insurance companies out there. But, before we even get to that, I want to know about you. What prompted you to call our office today?" >> Yeah. I I really like that because [clears throat] the problem that I'm learning, you know, as I'm dealing a lot with medical, you know, I have family members like my wife and my son

was a preemie, and um you know, my wife has had some surgeries uh here recently. And in dealing dealing with medical offices, it is a standard of business to lead out with insurance conversation. And it is so frustrating because [clears throat] it it didn't occur to me that you know, let's let's have them focus on the health needs or the individual. Let's focus on that first. You know, and and and my my whole thought in bringing this up Lacy is I'm just sick and tired of

medical in general, the clinical side of medicine which includes dentistry allowing us to to let insurance dictate the initial encounter. You know, and therefore giving the patient and the public the perception that insurance is more important than your care or more important than who you are, you know? Um I I just don't believe that medical prac- if you're on the clinical side I just don't believe that it it's your responsibility to understand the patient's insurance the way the patient should understand it. >> Yeah, well it's

cuz that is their responsibility. >> It's the deal the patient signed, right? To sign up for the their health care or dental insurance plan. >> the public has become so lazy when it comes to insurance. It's your benefit. It's not You go to the doctor and what I expect at the doctor's office is to get great clinical care. >> Yeah. >> And if my insurance covers it, great. If it doesn't then the people need to know that it's your financial responsibility. If you want if you

want good health if you want to live you know. >> Whoa. >> And and and see a good doctor. Whoa. I mean it it your insurance is on you. You need to learn that. And it's so hard. I don't know what needs to be done in the public to shift that mentality to let people know that when you go into the doctor's office, it is your responsibility to know your insurance benefits. It is the doctor's office to know the medical >> Absolutely. >> and figure that

out for you. But anyway, I'm off my rant. I yield back to you. >> No, no, no, no. It it's And I think [laughter] I think you're 100% right, but there's a few things here that I that I have to jump in on because you know you guys invited me on the ball. So, I >> [laughter] >> the first the first thing is I think that I think that medicine has changed so much for medical doctors that they don't know what else to do. >> Yeah.

>> I've had conversations with medical doctors and and they are they feel like their profession has been taken away from them because >> because we as Americans don't go to the doctor if we don't have insurance. Therefore, the insurance gets to rule their life. The insurance companies get to truly dictate what kind of medical care we get. The second part of this is we as Americans have this giant misunderstanding that medical insurance and dental insurance are the exact same thing. They they think that no matter

what it they go hand in hand. When in fact, they do not at all. They have nothing to do with one another. And you can have medical insurance and not have dental insurance. And so I feel like it it has to start in our dental industry, I feel like number one, we have to start by educating our patients from the first phone call, from the first visit, from every single touch that we have with a patient, we are educators and we have to help them understand

that dental insurance is 100% different than medical insurance. And this is how this is the type of care you're going to receive in our office. And number one, before anything else, we do not allow the insurance companies to dictate the type of care that we give to you. Therefore, we have options for your financial stability in our office. We have a way for to help you make this a lifestyle, to make your health a lifestyle rather than an emergency. And we have to keep that in

mind every single time we have a conversation with a with a patient, with a potential patient, with an existing patient. Now, the medical side of it I I I just don't think that we can tackle that, but look at what we've done in the dental industry to help our patients have a choice. >> Yeah. >> And and we just have to remember we're educators. We constant at every single aspect of the dental office, we're educators. The business team, the clinical team, the doctor, the hygienist, we're

educators. And so we just have to constantly remind our patients that have chosen us why they chose us and why they come back through the door every single time. Because we will not allow the insurance company to dictate the type of care we give you. >> Yeah, I like that. Yeah. One thing I will say in visiting [clears throat] various different um specialists on the medical side that that who who run practices that are the dynamics are the same as a dental practice is I will

tell you that dentistry in terms [clears throat] of insurance conversation, the avoidance of insurance conversations, and helping patients focus on their care needs first I I do believe >> [clears throat] >> dentistry is doing a a much much better job. I don't know what goes on on the clinical or the management education side of um like the podiatrist for instance, the one that I visited yesterday. >> Mhm. >> But I called 10 podiatrists before I found the one that I wanted to go to. >> Well,

I'm not that dedicated. >> Well, I [laughter] The reason why I [clears throat] kept hanging up and recalling is because I wanted to find an office that that you know, I well, I was curious just to see number one what how they how they handled things on their side of the industry. And everybody [clears throat] asked me first question Well, great. We'd love to schedule appointment. What insurance do you take? >> Uh-huh. >> You know, and that was just the theme. And then going into these

offices, I just you know, and comparing it to our industry, I think dental we we we're not too bad, you know, >> [laughter] >> compared to other areas. So So and I think that's a credit to, you know, the people like Lacy that are out there just hammering this message, um you know, about focusing on the patient first and and and educating the patients on all aspects, including insurance, which I agree with, you know, it's good to educate them on it and make sure that they

understand uh you know, their options as it pertains to their their benefits, but using insurance as more so as [clears throat] a tool that to pay for some of the benefits or some of the the treatment needs of the patient. Um So Lacy, what uh what's your overall prediction of dental insurance for the future? Do you do you get into that or have any thoughts on that? >> I do. I I think that like I said, with the choices that we have available to us today,

I think we're going to have more choices and more choices. And I I think maybe the dental insurance companies are are already starting to feel like, "Oh crap, they may not need us." And the fact of the matter is let's let's think about it. Our premiums have gone up, but yet the maximum benefits have not. You know, $1,200, $1,500 is still the normal, which it was back in the '70s. It's still the normal. There are I have run a across a couple of plans that I've

looked for the fine print because they're pretty phenomenal. But those are very few and far between. Um I think that the options that we have available to offer to our patients today, I think it's going to put a crunch on the insurance company. And they're either they are going to have to make some changes, or they're never going to change, and they're going to not be near as important in the dental industry. I mean, let's think about chiropractic care. Your back hurts, your neck hurts, you

can't move, you don't care whether you go to whether you have insurance or not, you're going to the chiropractor if you believe in chiropractic care. Um vision, if you can't see, you're going to see an optom- an optometrist whether you have vision benefits or not. >> Yeah. >> So, I I think that the more we show how important dental health is and the fact that we have options to give our patients. Now, I I personally um I already foresee it changing. I really do. We We

have, I would say, 85% of our option our of our clients right now offer membership plans. >> Sweet. >> And um they have they have great success. >> Yeah, I mean, that's I mean, I see a ton of practices having great amount of sec- success with uh membership programs. >> Watch your mouth, man. >> [laughter] >> I know. I did a little wince ON THAT ONE. >> THANKS, BEN. >> I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T [laughter] KNOW what practice >> You put your minds out of the

gutter. >> You're going in the gutter. We're talking dental. >> We're only going to the good practices. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Um >> Send me a text and tell me where you're going. No, [laughter] I'm just kidding. >> But I've seen a lot of of practices uh sign up with a lot of patients that don't have dental insurance, right? And that's that's primarily what I do every day. Um and it is growing growing growing very quickly in in this industry and I hope more and

more practices can do that because insurance sucks, we know that, right? And makes it makes it complicated for both the practice and the patient. Um and and it it gets us focusing on things as office managers and office teams, it gets us focusing on things that aren't as important as getting to know the patient and getting to know how we can help them better and serve them better. So, that's that's my suit two cents there. >> Well, that's good. I like it. >> Yeah. >> Well,

Lacey, um gosh, there's so uh we know you can cover. >> [clears throat] >> Um it looks like we're just coming up on our on our 30-minute uh window here for for our podcast today. Do you have any closing >> Oh, I thought this was like 90 minutes. >> [laughter] >> We can We can definitely do 90 minutes. >> I'm kidding. I'm totally kidding. [laughter] >> But I'm I thought this was like a 3-hour podcast. >> I'm going to have to go get some lunch and

I'll be right back [laughter] and we can do 90 minutes. Hold on. >> Right, right. You're you're doing the whole um newscast, the the news commentator thing where you are going to have to eventually go put some pants on? >> [laughter] >> Yep, yeah, yeah. >> that. I put a shirt on. I got to go put up some pants on right after this for an appointment, but >> Dude, dude, one thing at a time. >> [laughter] >> One thing at a time, Ben. One pair of

clothing items at a time. >> [laughter] >> So, Lacey, you're an obvious expert at so many things uh management related. I just love the the the phone techniques that you just shared with us and and the mentality and educational recommendations. Um how how can we get a hold of you? How can our listeners get a hold of you if they have questions or want to inquire more about more stuff that you might know? >> Yell out my name. Somebody knows me. >> [laughter] >> Lacey. >>

We obviously are on Facebook, practicedynamics.net website, practicedynamics.net. Um I speak a lot. I am We work with offices. Um I'm happy to share my phone number. You guys are more than welcome to give me a call. My my cell phone number is area code 623-810-1352. That is my cell phone. It rings directly to me. Love to answer questions. Feel free to email me lacy.phillips@practicedynamics.net and um happy to help. >> Sweet. >> Awesome. Yeah, I highly recommend getting a hold of Lacy. As you can tell here,

she's uh passionate about what she does and you're fun to talk to as well. It was great having you on the program. >> [laughter] >> We've been saying we were going to do this for a while and it was we were at Jumpstart. >> Yeah, yeah. >> A couple of weeks ago and Jordan did his signature, you know, his signature move and said, "Dude, we got to do a podcast." [laughter] >> Dude. >> I can totally see and envision Jordan [laughter] saying that. You know, he

puts up the He puts up those two fingers. What What is that anyway? You know, the the rock on signal that you give just about everybody in your pictures. >> Yeah, it's rock on. >> Dude, let's let's jump on the podcast. >> Yeah, let's [laughter] rock on. Let's jump on the podcast. >> Yeah, let's rock on. Let's rock on. >> [laughter] >> Well, Lacy, it's been a pleasure and an honor having you on the show. We are going to post your contact information in the show

notes. So, for those of you in the car, on an airplane, or somewhere else where you can't write, check out the show notes with Lacy's website contact information, get a hold of her. We believe her to be a true expert in in more than just insurance. Uh she she knows management inside and out. So, Lacy, thank you again for being on the show today. >> Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Have a great day. >> Okay. Take care, everybody.