Dealing with the Imposter Syndrome, Anxiety, and Protectionism with Dr. Jessica Metcalfe

[music] Welcome to the Navigating Dental Insurance Podcast where we don't take from insurance [music] companies. Here are your hosts, Mr. Jordan Comtock and Mr. Ben Tui. >> Welcome to the Navigating Dell Insurance podcast. My name is [music] Ben Tui and yet for another day of solo hosting, Jordan Comtock is unavailable. Uh Jordan is a lot busier than I am. He has embraced this whole world of travel like I used to do years ago. Um and so he's been attending a number of meetings across the country.

One of which was the uh Adon meeting in Florida. I guess who who can pass that up when you have Disney World and uh uh what's that other one? Universal Studios right there in the middle of Orlando. I chose to pass that up with CO. Um I've just been having a lot of uh interesting things happening in our community. I'm, you know, Polynesian as most of you know. Um CO has hit our community really hard. So from week to week, I've been attending funerals of f

family members and friends that have been impacted by this terrible pandemic, which I can't wait. I can't wait for it to be over for all of our sakes so that we can live in a world that's a little bit more more normal than what we're dealing with now. On a positive note, we received a lot of feedback from you on new topics that we're going to cover. And so this fall, we're planning on engaging. And if you're listening to this in January 202022, this is being

posted fall of 2021. And we're ramping up the topics in an effort to help accommodate a lot of you who are experiencing insurance related issues as you deal with the changes going on in the industry as it pertains to insurance. I want to shift focus today and I want to make sure that we reserve most of our time for our guest. Um, our our guest is uh Dr. Jessica Metaf. Did I get that right? Dr. Jessica Met Metaf is how you pronounce your last name. >>

Exactly. So, the way that I say it, it's like a baby cow. So, [laughter] >> very good. Well, thank you for taking time with us. It's a brief background about Dr. Jessica. She's the founder of The Alchemist Dentist. She's an international speaker, certified life coach. And here's something cool that I learned about her today is that she's a general dentist oncology patients and uh in addition to being a practicing dentist, she's a very passionate educator and uh it's just so great to have you here on

our program today. You reached out to me on LinkedIn and you know I often think that we have a podcast that uh interestingly we have over 80,000 that are on our email list but I never know who listens to our podcast and what the reach is. And so the fact that you reached out on LinkedIn where we connected uh it it just uh for me at least it was kind of a nice thing knowing that hey maybe our podcast is reaching people. [laughter] >> No it

definitely is. [laughter] >> So Dr. Jessica um this is a fun question to ask you know dentists and business business people that come on the podcast >> is what motivated you to get into dentistry? So, I go back to like the age of 14 and for take your kids to work day in grade 10, my parents were just like, "Go with your aunt. Your aunt's a dentist. Go with your aunt." I was like, "Okay, sounds good." And I remember helping out in like sterilization at the

time and like talking with the dental assistants and seeing the patients and seeing the way that my aunt structured a life that fit her. And that's what being a business owner and being in dentistry essentially gives us the opportunity to do. And so when I look back even before that in grade seven once a month when I had braces, my dad would drop me off at my aunt's house. She had taken that day off and she would take me to my orthodontist appointment and then we

would come home and her friends would come, a couple of her friends would come over and we'd bake the entire day. And I love looking back and the capability of taking a random Tuesday off once a month. You can build that into your life as a dentist because you're the entrepreneur. You set your days. You set your boundaries. And so ultimately, that's essentially the main reason of why I got into dentistry is to create a way of living that specifically fits me. >> Yeah, that's awesome.

I think that's, you know, when you look at um most students when they're picking a career path, um, you know, it's interesting to see what motivates them to get into certain professions, money, you know, fame, you know, for you it was, uh, lifestyle >> and the flexibility and being able to, you know, be in control of what you what what you do with your time. >> Exactly. >> Which is which is awesome. And so this this whole uh great business name in terms of the alchemist

dentist, what motivated you to use uh the world al alchemist? >> So alchemy in general is finding this magical elixir to essentially prolong one's life. That's kind of the medieval term behind it. But when you start to unpack it and really start to figure out what's going on with alchemy, it's actually the self-realization that what you need to do to create boundaries, to look into self-care, to live a life that you want is all within you and you just really need to look inside and figure

out what that is. And so going back to initially why I wanted to go into dentistry, fast forward to me practicing, I lost all of that. I completely forgot why I actually wanted to get into dentistry because I was stuck in the hamster wheel of thinking I needed to work those five, six days a week. I needed to see as many patients as I could and pushing myself to the limit and to the point that I was in the middle of my third burnout and three

times too many. And at that point, I was then diagnosed with clinical depression and a generalized anxiety disorder. And I had to really dig deep into what were the next 25, 30 years of my life going to look like because I wasn't going to make it if I kept going the way that I was going. >> Gotcha. I was just speaking to a client earlier today and he was saying I I recommended to him, so I'm not I'm not a practice consultant or a practice coach.

I I deal strictly in the world of dental insurance just here in the United States. U but for this dentist, he's become a really good friend of mine. And because we've had so many great consultants and dentists on our on our program, I've learned so much about how to run an effective practice. And for his area and location, I recommended that he uh he give some evening hours a try just because there was a pattern with patients uh rebooking and cancelling. Um, and there were requests

for patients to come in the evenings. A lot of requests. So, I gave him that recommendation. I was like, "Yes, okay. So, I'm gonna on Friday we're going to open at 7 a.m. and then we're going to close at 9:00 p.m." And I'm like, "No, [laughter] if you want your team to quit or unless >> right, >> you know, where it's hard to find employees now, you don't want to have that as a problem. just do just do 2 pm to 9 pm or 1 pm

to 8 pm you know something that's simple that fits within the same amount of hours that you spend any given Friday but just shift it you know >> and it was for that very reason the burnout factor and I see that happening along among a lot of our colleagues in dentistry is that um there's this there's this desire to be perfect or this desire to be great you know and to pay off debt and to live a great lifestyle and you go on vacations And sometimes

the failure is the fact that we we do too much in in too little time, >> not thinking about the long-term, you know, the long-term goals and long long-term objectives. And I'm assuming that's probably where you're going with this uh impostor. We'll get into that a minute in a minute. >> But I also wanted to ask um a little bit about being a general dentist to oncology patients. Now, pre-show we talked about the fact that I've never heard of that. >> Yeah. >> And I'm actually

excited about that because every year we hear about new innovations, new things in dentistry, uh, that advance the profession in a way that allows for other dentists to look at different specialties, you know, specialties that were previously unknown. >> And this looks like it might perhaps even be a new specialty, a general dentist to ancology patients. How did you get into that and what does that really mean to be a general dentist oncology patients? >> So, when I uh finished dental school, I returned to Toronto,

which is where my family's from, and I completed a hospital residency program, and I ended up falling in love with oral surgery and applied to oral surgery two years in a row and didn't get in. Now during that time I had stayed on as a staff dentist at my previous GPR program and the reason why I chose that program was it treated medically compromised patients and special needs in adults and so that's where my focus has always been in complex care. In [clears throat] that program

a part of it was me going to the neighboring cancer center as a part of one of the rotations. Now, that second year that I didn't get into oral surgery, the neighboring hospital reached out to me and said, "Hey, you know, you're devastated, but we want you here." And that's what started my journey with being in the cancer center. And so, when I say I'm a general dentist to oncology patients, working out of the cancer center, all I saw was oncology patients. So, when friends or

family members would be like, "Hey, I want to come and see you." I'd be like, "You don't want to come and see me. I am not the person when you're seeing me. There's something more that's going on." And so the main types of patients that I would see are the head and necks pre-during, post radiation surgery, >> the leukemas, and the lymphas before they would go for their bone marrow or stem cell transplants. And I'm clearing them of infections before they go because those lingering infections

that may not be bothering them at this point in time become problematic when they're severely immuno compromised. And then anyone who was going through chemotherapy, breast, prostate, lungs, who then develop acute active infections would come and see us because a they're so imunocmpromised and their counts could be super low. So it's unsafe to be treated in a private practice setting outside of a hospital. So >> that's essentially who I treat in a nutshell. >> So do you have a practice in the cancer centers or do

you have a standalone practice or both? >> So So very interesting. So it depends on the location that you're at. So I recently moved a few months ago. While I was in Toronto, we had a dental department within the cancer center and now I'm in Victoria, British Columbia. And there's still an affiliation in the larger city. So Vancouver, there's a dental department in the cancer center, but the volume just doesn't call for it on the island. So I bring patients into a private practice that I

work at. >> Gotcha. So all of your patients are from those clinics. >> Exactly. >> That's interesting. So I wonder, you know, some dentists that might be hearing this might be fascinated and thinking, well, how do I get how do I look into that? You know, because >> at the end of the day, we're looking for an active patient base. you know, we're looking for opportunities to treat and uh opportunities to be innovative uh be innovative just like you know what you did with the oncology

departments. [snorts] Um so I'm assuming that well you kind of mentioned that you started first in a hospital. Is that right? Did I hear that right? >> Yes. >> That kind of evolved into what you're doing now? >> Exactly. Yeah. So the dental department that I ended up working at for 5 years, they had started about 38 years ago and it was a clinic affiliated with more than one hospital. So they also saw cardiac patients to clear them before they would go for their cardiac surgeries

or um other transplant patients including say double lung transplant or liver transplants. And so it was it was seeing more of the medically compromised patients that you can't necessarily see in private practice. >> Right. Right. Are the procedures very [snorts] similar to that of a general dentistry practice? >> 100%. So general dentist. So and that is the one thing that I like to clarify right off the bat like I'm not an oral pathologist. I'm not an oral surgeon. I am a general dentist. So I'm still

doing general dentistry for these patients. It's just certain things may have to get done in a specific timeline or they have to might be organized with say blood transfusion clinics because their counts are so low. So that's what we're looking at from a medical standpoint is what needs to get done either a before patient starts their treatment or what needs to be even held off until after they're done their treatment as well. >> So you're you're coordinating mostly with the oncologists, right? >> Correct. >> Building

treatment plans with them. So, I'm fascinated about this simply because uh in this day and age, at least here in the United States, uh general dentists as well as all specialties of g dentistry are tapping into medical billing. So, that's something that has we haven't really scratched the surface on how to do that in the United States. Okay. >> Still an unknown concept. But this what you're [snorts] doing here, gosh, it it opens the door for a general dentistry practice to almost ex well to to

to add medical billing almost immediately. At least from my perspective on how you're describing things and what I what I know on how medical insurance works, >> but I know that we're not here to talk about that. I was just curious about [laughter] that. >> I was like, don't even get me started. That's a whole different tangent right there. >> Yeah. Well, our our uh website is say no to PPOs or say no to insurance, but uh you know, I I'm just so fascinated with this

oncology tiein. I imagine that you do so much work to help these patients that are are suffering in a big way, you know, and so it's got to be fulfilling to a certain extent what you do. But um on the opportunistic side of things from my mind, if anybody who's listening to this may want to get into this, I will tell you, you want to look into the medical billing component because like uh if you're doing scaling root laning or a crown or whatever it may

be, when you bill those to medical insurance, oftentimes the reimbursements are three to five times more than regular dental insurance. But let's move on. Uh well we we can maybe you and I can have another conversation about how insurance works in your country up in Canada and uh and maybe we can we can find some solutions for what we deal with here in the United States because insurance is insurance and they tend to do the same things no matter what country you're in. Um >> so

true. >> But I [laughter] I want to shift gears here and talk about one of your leading topics which is the impostor phenomenon. >> Can Yes. Can you explain to our listeners what what does that mean? What does an impostor phenomenon mean? And and why have you chosen this as a leading topic? >> Yeah. So, h the imposttor phenomenon is when you experience self-doubt in combination with the feeling that you're going to be found out. So, you explain away your successes, underestimate your abilities, maybe you

even chalk your achievements up to luck, or think that the shoe's just going to drop at some point and you don't know when. And so, it's not self-doubt on its own. Self-doubt on its own is a measure of you're in your growth phase. There's continuity. You're trying something new. But that anxiety or worry component that someone's going to find me out, I shouldn't actually be doing this. When you know in the back of your mind that you're truly competent, you're credentialed. Like you have all of

those, but it's thinking that you shouldn't be the one doing that. And so a great example is when you're trying to get ready. Let's say you're going to be doing molar endo and you've worked your way up to it. you've taken your courses and all of a sudden you essentially scare yourself to the point you self-sabotage and you're like, "No, no, no. I shouldn't be the one to do this. I need to take one more course." And then it's always just one more this, >> one

more this, then I'll feel that much more comfortable. Okay, if I have this CE or if I have this digital technology or if I have this this, then I'll actually feel better being able to do it. or you go back to school and you get another master's or you get a specialty program, right? There's all these other things where it's your inner voice telling yourself that you shouldn't be the one doing this. >> Interesting. I hear that in my head every single day. Um, and I

imagine that, you know, as as business owners, I can relate to this. So, I'm not a dentist, but in in running my own business, I I do feel I do feel exactly what you're saying. When I read this imposter phenomenon, I didn't I didn't see it that way. I saw it from a completely different perspective, just an assumption, but now that you mention it, um it opens up a lot for a discussion in terms of >> Right. >> I think I think that I've never admitted

to anybody that I I do doubt myself quite a bit from time to time. >> Um you know, my business is primarily in the United States where I doubt everything from hiring new people. I doubt every I I doubt my skill set from time to time wondering should we actually be should we even be doing this or send these clients away. Um you know I I I think I I I would say that my business is fairly successful >> but at the same time I have

so many doubts about what we do and doubts about directions that that I need to go and I feel exactly what you said. Some sometimes I feel like somebody's going to call me out and say, "Dude, you're just a fraud." >> Right. And so is that so is that what you mean when when you say somebody's going to call you out, they're going to say, "You don't have any business doing this." >> Yes, that's exactly it. But no one actually does that. No one calls us

out on it. It's just us doing it to ourselves. It's the way we choose to speak to ourselves, which has a huge impact. And that's why I know there's always this term, fake it till you make it. Fake it till you make it. I actually despise that quote because if you can't feel it and if you tell yourself, "I'm gonna fake it until I make it," you're already trying to convince yourself that you shouldn't be the one doing this, >> that you're already a fake, but

you're not. >> And we always want to be learning more and doing more. But that comes with time. So we have to give ourel the benefit of the doubt that what I know now the information that I have the skills that I have now I can absolutely apply them and with time continue to grow and continue to evolve. >> Yeah. Yeah. I this is so I'm just a thought that came to mind was u so we deal in the world of negotiating with insurance carriers on

behalf of dentists and one of the questions that almost comes it comes up almost always is well I'm just a single doctor practice [snorts] >> why would the insurance company want to work with me and if I do engage in any level of negotiations are they going to retaliate and so this fear of fighting the 800lb gorilla or 600lb gorilla I don't know the exact term is but the gorilla the big gorilla [laughter] the fear is and where the doubt comes in to a lot of

dentists is at least from this angle is I don't want I don't want to wake a sleeping giant you know >> and and this is the reason why there's a lot of failure in the in our nation when it comes to fighting the insurance carriers to get what is rightfully yours But I imagine that you approach it from a different angle, right? In terms of the clinical component and and just the the the individual self-worth. Where do you start with your [snorts] coaching in terms of

helping people understand this imposttor phenomenon and how do I identify whether they're they're in that category or at least admit get them to admit that they're in that category? Where do you really start with this? >> Yeah. So, one of the ways that I start is to really have the individual pay attention to the words that they're using to speak to themselves. Because the way that we speak to our patients, the way that we speak to insurance companies, the way that we speak to our team

members, our family, that voice is very different compared to how we choose to speak to oursel. Mhm. >> And what the research has shown is even when we're using an indoor voice, so inside our head, that voice we use when we're problem solving, when we're in the shower having an argument that potentially will will happen when we're reading in our head, that same area in the brain gets activated if you're speaking to yourself or if you're having a conversation with someone out loud, which means then

we hear it just as loud. >> Yeah. So, by starting to be aware to the thoughts that we're having about ourselves, you can start to pay attention and substitute words. So then that way it's getting you to a point that you can start believing the words that you're actually communicating with yourself. >> Right. Right. So, you know, as I'm thinking about what you're saying here >> and this whole area of self-doubt, I imagine that if you don't go through some of this initial process, it could

lead to depression and worse, right? >> You know, uh I think in, you know, in my community, at least where where I live, there's a high rate of depression that goes unnoticed. I actually just spoke with um a clinician about about this a few weeks ago. we were trying to do they I participated in a focus group >> and it was a focus group designed for people in my my ethnic community regarding mental health. >> Okay. And interestingly um people from back home that live here

now we we participated in this uh uh focus group and what we've what we've learned as a community is that you know certain cultures like mine we tend to brush mental health items under the rug >> especially things such as self-doubt you know >> to where unfort you know in my community back in American Samoa uh the suicide rate since this whole bad pandemic has started has skyrocketed. Almost every day there's a there's either a kid or young adult or young professional that has lost everything.

Um and they and they unfortunately make that decision you know uh with a series of you know sort of a a ripple effect starting with small things you know >> that really greatly negatively impact their mental health for them to to go that far. So I imagine what what you're presenting here is an opportunity for dentists to alleiate some of that stress, that mental health stress, you know, and this is probably a good place to start. So in terms of identifying that there is a problem,

>> what's next? Like what what do what do dentists need to do? And I bring up the story about my community because when we look at different industries, like in the dental industry and the law enforcement industry, you you see interesting things as it pertains to mental health issues, >> um that often go either unnoticed or in my community brushed under the rug, you know, right? >> Um it's a common theme in my in my community to suck it up, you know, just just get over

it. >> Yep. Just tough it out. And that is the worst thing that we could say to someone is to tough it out. >> Mhm. >> Because what that is saying to the individual is what they're thinking and feeling is not validated. >> Right. >> And that in and of itself can be so detrimental to the individual. And within dentistry, because we're in a field of extremely high achievers now, you don't just have imposttor phenomenon, but you have that perfectionism mindset, >> right? >> And that

combination has been shown to be the highest indicators of developing psychological distress ultimately leading to burnout, clinical depression, and generalized anxiety. Mhm. >> So, [clears throat] we know that this is happening, but the dental community is still I don't want to say sweeping it under the rug. It's just we're trying to tell each other to kind of almost tough it out. We're not comfortable yet having those conversations, which is why I started the Alchemist Dentist because when I was going through my own experience with it,

I didn't feel like I could open up to anyone. And so when I started to heal and I started to be on the opposite end of things and I started to understand why I was experiencing what I was experiencing, I would kind of drop couple lines here and there with friends, but I was asking for a friend >> to make it as if it wasn't actually me, right? >> Yeah. But what I started to notice is when I started to be upfront and vulnerable and share

what I was feeling, all of a sudden more people that I didn't even know started to come out and say, "Thank you for sharing this. I thought I was the only one alone in this." >> It's amazing that uh you have this bandwagon approach where people feel so uncomfortable talking to anybody, you know, for the fear of being shot down, you know, and and it's so funny. Um, a a funny thought, not to take this lightly, but a thought that came to mind is that so

my wife sees this masseuse and she like when I used to see her, I would cry. Like I would inside my inside I'm like, "Oh, this I don't like this." But she does this deep tissue massage. Like when I used to go to her, I was a lot bigger. You know, I'm a former football player. And over the years, I just I stopped lifting weights cuz I don't want to be I don't want to be big anymore. I don't want want to be heavy. [clears throat]

But this this person would literally put her elbow into every single tissue in my body to the point where it was it was excruciating. And I was like, this is not enjoyable for me. But I couldn't say anything because in my mind, I'm like, she's going to think that I'm a wuss if I cry [laughter] out. Oh, no. I hear you. I've been there, too. [laughter] >> Yeah. So, here I am on the, you know, just lying there on on the table and, you know, just

like just suck it up and take it as a man, you know, and whatever that means these days. And just just, you know, just endure it, you know, >> right? >> But I never went back. And so she asked my wife like, "Why doesn't Ben come back to uh to get a massage?" And and and my wife would laugh and say, "That's because he's a wuss. [laughter] he can't stand your massages. And so she's like, he just needs to speak up. So my wife explained to

him that, well, the way I'm treated in public is that I'm a I'm a tough guy. Uh I don't know why this is true, but people someway somehow are afraid of me. [laughter] Um [clears throat] and and people expect me to do hard things, you know, and to be able to take hard things. And I think when you look at dentists, it's no different, right? >> I think the when the public when when anybody looks at a dentist, they they make the assumption that they're, you

know, they're all rich, they're all successful, they all have, you know, they're smart, they're educated, they they can take it, you know, they can take hard things. So on the dentist side of things, when we talk about what we're going through mentally, you know, and and and how tough our lives are, well, how tough dentist lives are and the doubts that you feel, it's hard to bring those up, you know, to anybody out there that's not considered a clinical psychologist or a counselor, you know, >>

but I think that's a flaw, right? I think I mean, h how how do you get dentists to be open about these things with each other or with somebody that they trust? by sharing my own experiences. >> That is that is a huge component to what I do with the Alchemist Dentist because >> when others can see that not everyone is this perfect embodiment of whatever they deem perfect, right? And when we look at social media, you're seeing the perfect clinical cases. You're going to conferences,

you're seeing the perfect clinical cases. how to obtain the perfect margin, whether it's gingal or tooth related or whatever it is, right? But the thing is is that I don't want to know how to get to that perfect margin because if I follow steps A, B, and C, I know I'll get there. I want to know how to manage the mistakes. I want to know what ends up happening when hits the fan. I want to know when I feel like I'm in the deepest, darkest hole,

who can I talk to? Who's also experiencing these things? And so that was one way for me to get the message out there. And I can almost say it is I started The Alchemist Dentist for selfish reasons [laughter] for myself, but in doing so, it was a way for me to connect with others. So then they wouldn't get to the point of where I was when I was in my own deepest, darkest hole. And so if I can help and share fears, doubts, vulnerabilities with others,

then I've connected with others in a way that we can make changes so then they can go back to enjoying dentistry going back to their reason on why they became a dentist on how can they choose to be happy now and in today's present day. >> Yeah. Uh this is such a great topic. There's one conference in particular that just started. It's called the Stress-Free Dental Conference. >> Yes. [snorts] >> Um, you heard he heard about that one? It's >> Yes, I have. >> Smiles at

Sea. It's going to be at the Smiles at Sea Conference next month in Miami, I believe. Are you headed to that? >> I'll be there. I'll be at Dentistry's Got Talent. So, I'll be [laughter] >> I'll be there on Friday. >> Sweet. Okay. >> So, I So, I'll I'll come by and say hello. So, on Friday, I'm sitting on a panel for the stress free dental conference. I'm actually going to share um the organizer for that meeting. I'm going to send your contacts to him because

he's planning on doing more of these conferences in the future. I think the whole theme in well, one of the themes in dentistry is that, you know, your topic is is spot on. There's definitely a burnout factor. Um, a lot of dentists for the last year and a half at least that have come to me, they they've lost their passion for dentistry. >> Yeah. >> Um, a lot have switched careers. Crazy. you know, they spend uh $2 $300,000 in student loans and they switch to a

different career because they just lose their love and their their desire to be in the dental field anymore. And to me, I think there's a way, you know, there's a way to to to get them to follow your path to get back to the reasons why they love dentistry. Like what you mentioned, I wrote your notes down. you know, when you were 14 years old, your aunt was a dentist and would take Tuesdays off, you know, and then in seventh grade, you do some baking and

you know, you saw that lifestyle and you and you became passionate about that career path that even me oftentimes I I I have those days where I'm like, uh, I don't like my job, but most days I do. And we have to remember that, you know, the most days, the majority of the time when we do have positive experience in our careers. I'm curious to know in terms of an engagement with you, like if a dentist is hearing this and says, you know, I I have

this imposttor phenomenon and I need help. >> I'm I'm assuming you provide one-on-one coaching on this, right? >> I do. I have one-on-one coaching u that I offer uh for a monthly rate and I like to set them up for either six month or 12 month um longevity. Why? because of the fact that in order to make those changes, you need accountability, consistency that ultimately allows the individual afterwards to have this sustainability long term because burnout is complex. It's dynamic. It doesn't happen overnight. You didn't

start experiencing this crippling self-doubt overnight, which means it's not going to go away overnight. >> So, how do you get there? By small baby steps. But the thing is is that it's completely recognizable and reversible. >> Yeah, absolutely. I love that. So, if somebody's interested, how do they get a hold of you? >> They can check me out on social media, so the Alchemist Dentist or they can email me at info@drjessica.com. >> Okay. So, for those of you that are uh occupied or driving or don't

have a pen or paper, I'll include Dr. Jessica's information in the show notes, both her website and the email address that she mentioned and then any other social media accounts that she shares with us will all be included in there. Dr. Jessica, wow, this has been a phenomenal topic. Um quite honestly I I think so there's two things that uh wasn't familiar with a general dentist oncology patients and then somebody in dentistry that's a licensed dentist that uh coaches on this whole imposture phenomenon react sort

of as a you know a mentor a coach to people that might be struggling in a way that helps them perhaps even improve uh their mental health you know their overall um ability to to to enjoy their their careers again you know and get back to that and I love that. Those are two things that I did didn't know existed in the dental industry and I guess this is why we do what we do. You know, we network and we do podcasts in an effort to

find new people, new specialties that you have and [music] then share them with the public. Um, any final thoughts for our listeners today, Dr. Jessica? >> Yeah, the last thought that I want to leave with people [music] is we expect a lot from ourselves all the time. our to-do list or our checklists are super long and we're always consistently striving for something, [music] but we need to really practice self-kindness and self-compassion [music] because we tell all of our patients, don't wait until you're symptomatic to come

and see me because it's too late at that point. So, why do we allow ourselves to wait until we're symptomatic to make a change? So, start to make those changes now. Take time for yourself. >> That's great advice. [music] I love that. Well, this has been great. really appreciate you taking uh time to be on our program today. And for our guests, um you know, let's be honest with ourselves. I think we all need a little bit of this in our life. [music] We need a

little bit of this type of coaching in an effort to make sure that uh that [music] we don't have that burnout, that we don't lose our passion for what we do and we're always constantly reminded about the joys that we have in our career. Dr. Jessica, thank you so much for being with us today. We'll see you at Smiles at Sea next month. And to our listeners, we wish you all the very best of success and we hope that you are all thriving during these very

fun and interesting times. [music] Thank you everybody. Thank you Dr. Jessica. >> Thank you. [music] >> [music] [music]