Ending the Dental Divorce Cycle: Creating thriving associateships, partnerships and teams.

[music] >> Welcome to the navigating dental insurance podcast, where we don't take from insurance [music] companies. Here are your hosts, Mr. Jordan Comstock and Mr. Ben Tuinei. >> Welcome to another exciting episode of the navigating dental insurance podcast. This is Ben Tuinei, your solo host for today. Jordan, of course, again is uh absent, more so excused from today's episode. Uh many of you know that Jordan is uh my neighbor. Uh there's a path right behind my house, a bike trail, running trail. Um and Jordan stopped

by my house a couple of days ago and he introduced me to his daughters as the uncle. So, I'm I'm his uncle I'm Uncle Ben to his kids. Which is really neat because I have in the in the range of 75-ish nephews and nieces. Um so, Jordan, don't take this personally, but um I don't know my nephews and niece nieces' names, all of them. I just call them hey K, hey Tau, hey T. They all have the same name depending on what day it is. So,

for your daughters, Jordan, I might I might make up some name, something easy for me to remember. Um so, many of you know that Jordan and I are now neighbors, which is fun. That was not planned, but uh you know, when fate happens, I guess, you know, as they say, uh the universe aligns, things happen. Well, today we have um Josh, we have This episode is a long time coming. We've canceled, we've rescheduled, we've had internet outages. We've had uh tornadoes, which is totally true. I

I I drove through a tornado in Georgia. Um southern Georgia, uh about 3 weeks ago, survived that, and I had a golf ball not a golf ball, a softball-sized uh hail smash our rental car's windshield. Boom. My wife and son were were [clears throat] crying and you know, we're like, oh, this is the end of life as it is, but we've had those kinds of crazy issues >> [laughter] >> that have have caused this this this episode to be postponed. So, this is going to be

an epic episode. Everybody buckle up and and and get ready. This is going to be exciting. Um many of you probably already know Bob. Bob Spiel, he uh he's the author of Flip Your Focus. It's one of those really great leadership books about upside down leadership, right? How to realign your focus in a way for you to um be a more effective leader. And I've read his book a couple of times. Bob, welcome back to the program. >> Hey, thanks, Ben. Awesome to be here. >>

Yeah, it's great. Now, I'm going to get to you here in just a second, Brian, but Bob, um Flip Your Focus. Can you tell our listeners how they can get a hold of that book and why why it's important for them to at least consider it as a business owner, why they need to need to learn [clears throat] some of your style of leadership. >> Oh, thanks. Yeah, they can find it on Amazon. You can just go to Amazon and type in Flip Your Focus. Igniting

people, profits, and performance through upside-down leadership. Um and you know, it's 20 bucks. It's a it's a great read. Uh why they should care about it, frankly, is that you can't run faster than your leader. Yeah. And so, if a practice is going to raise the bar, the secret to the whole thing is the dentist raises the bar first. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> And once they get that mindset, it's really exciting to see what happens. >> Yeah, I love that. I've learned in my career as

a business owner is that you can't grow beyond your scope of understanding, your training, right? >> Yeah, you can't. That's right. >> oftentimes we become our own bottlenecks and it's a function of training and understanding and and and most of the times it's a function of leadership, right? How how you lead your your group of people to take you to that next level. >> Yeah, exactly. And and and the cool thing is, Ben, it's not as hard as it seems. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Okay,

really, you know, there's you can strip the mystery away from this thing >> Mhm. >> and I talk about one mindset and three skill sets and if you can just adopt the mindset and then practice the skill sets, suddenly magic starts to happen in your practice and the most awesome thing is that the dentist actually starts to feel less stress >> Yes. >> and more enjoyment because the team now is in alignment with where the dentist wants to go. It's such the coolest thing. >> I've

implemented that June of last year. Um I was so frustrated just because I I couldn't spend enough time on the leadership for the group. Training people that people knew my philosophy. So I I interviewed in-house to promote somebody to be my operating officer. >> Mhm. >> And sure enough, Miles on my team has been with me since the beginning of Veritas, which Veritas started in 2014. Um she Of course, she was the best one to interview for this particular position to delegate the the whole leadership

realm in in an effort to have others share the responsibilities and empowering her and trusting her. Um of course, she's had multiple pay raises since then because I've never seen the amount of growth in our business over the last what? >> Mhm. >> 10 months? 11 months? >> Mhm. >> It's never happened in our history. And it is [snorts] all about that It's It's about that flipping your focus as a leader. A lot of the concepts that you mentioned in your book that I ripped off

and stole and implemented. Um you know, I thank you for that. I All I paid you was that $20 for that book and it was totally worth it. >> You know, and and and and a couple of lunches, right? >> Yeah. Totally. So I I feel grateful, Bob, cuz a lot of your leadership stuff that you mentioned in the book has actually had a personal impact on me. So, if you're listening and you need a good read, uh flip your focus on Amazon. It's probably one

of the top leadership books I've read in the last >> And and it's awesome. It's also on Audible. So, if people don't want to don't want to read, they can listen to it and and pick up a lot there, too. >> That's awesome. >> It's also a pretty It's also pretty quick read, too. So, for those super busy dentists out there, it's pretty quick. Very easy >> it's one one of those things where you mark you you book tab and you'll go back to on the

weekend to read again. Because when you implement some of the things that Bob mentioned, it's I call it sort of a a chapter in the Bible of leadership, right? Or at least a an a book in in in the Bible of leadership, because it's one of those essential This is This is how I want to be a leader is a lot of what Bob mentioned in his book. >> Thanks, man. That means a lot. >> Brian, no, it's my pleasure. Now, Brian, so Brian, over the

last 5 years, quite impressive history. He's built two companies and he's taken them sort of from that startup level, you know, from zero to seven figures. And uh just curious, Brian, so how in terms of your history, that's actually very impressive to do that in 5 years. Um it took me over 10 years to do that with one business. Actually, two different businesses. Tell us a little bit about your your dental history, how you got involved in dentistry, and maybe even a little bit about the

two companies that uh that you've developed. >> Yeah, so both the previous companies I had worked with were sales and marketing companies. So, they were pretty rapid growth companies. I did a lot of operations, some sales here and there. Um I was number one employee in both companies, but I wasn't the owner. Uh so, I even though I facilitated it and created a lot of the growth, I didn't have that ownership stake that I really really wanted. So, um Bob and I have known each other

for the last 5 years. He's been a great mentor to me. And we just started talking about Um I mean, I've always picked his brain. Uh Bob's more than willing to always share uh his opinion and his mentorship. And so, we just started picking each other's brains, and we realized that we had a lot in common, and Bob's been in the industry for the last 15 um you know, 15 years plus. And we realized that uh we wanted to work together and find a find a

avenue to do that. So, last year the over the last year or so, we've been working on a few projects together, and that's when I just started to fall in love with dentistry. It is Bob talks about all the time, but I believe it. It's the greatest small business in America. It It really is. The amount of lives you can impact in such a small team, and how efficient you can make it. It's just so unique and so fun. So, I've really enjoyed diving into dentistry

because it really is just a fantastic industry to be a part of. >> It's a great career, you know, um I was sort of shocked a few years ago when we brought on a guest that came and talked about the stresses of dentistry. And I think the title of that episode was something along the lines of why have I lo- why have I lost my passion for dentistry, right? >> Mhm. >> And I to me, it was probably one of the the more less It was

actually a very sad. It was a dark and depressing episode in my mind as we were recording it. And uh I thought in my mind, this is probably not going to be a very popular episode, but we'll you know, we'll post it anyway, and we did. And in for that year, it was the number one most listened to episode. And that woke me up to the reality that from the dentist's perspective, dentistry is a hard career. Um >> It is. >> It It's a tough Yeah.

>> full contact sport. That's what we call it. It It is. It's all in. >> 8 to 10 days, 10 hours a a day, 4 to five days a week. Um and I and that was the first time I started to realize that from the doctor's side, it it's a lot more stressful than what I realized. And naturally, as you engage in a profession that's high demand, you you tend to lose the passion for dentistry. So, I'm I'm I'm glad what you mentioned, Brian, that dentistry

is a great career. I I think it's a great career. I have those ups and downs maybe on a quarterly basis, you know, you have those emotions kind of swinging back and forth, but overall, I think dentistry is probably one of the better professions out there. So, if you're feeling any stress and hate for the for the industry, talk to someone, you know, uh dentistry can be very, very enjoyable over time. Um especially as it's you know, what we're going to talk about today in terms

of this whole concept of partnerships, right? Associateships and all that. Uh the title of this episode, as you as you can see here, is something along the lines of ending the dental divorce cycle. And I think this is really cool and unique because I'm assuming we're we're talking about this from the perspective of doctor relationships, partnerships, and associateships. Is that right, guys? >> Correct. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, we're not going to be marital therapists today. We're going to be talking more so about um tips

and techniques on how to how to end that vicious cycle of turn and burn as it pertains to bringing on of other doctors into your practice to work with, right? So, let's talk about this. How this whole title how what made you guys think of this title in terms of it being called ending the dental divorce cycle? >> It's real simple, Ben, because well, twofold. Number one, when two dentists part ways, >> Mhm. >> it feels like a divorce. >> Yeah. >> It feels like a

divorce to the team. It it it costs it can cost upward of $100,000 in terms of opportunity cost and real cost to have that happen. But in the end, everybody just feels this this this negative energy of we failed. >> Yeah. >> You know? But the other part to this is that uh and just to give you some background um like Bright mentioned, I've been in the industry 15 years. I actually consulted in medicine after being a hospital and surgical center CEO. And I just happened

through I think one of those things in the universe lined everything up like you you and Jordan being neighbors. Um I was able to get into dentistry through working with another dental consultant and he opened my eyes to this whole really really cool industry, okay? And talking to a friend who had been a long-term dental consultant, um she mentioned me one time in a conf- phone call, well, "You know, Bob, our failure rate with placing associates is 75% within a year." >> Wow. >> And and

honest to goodness, I mean, this is I hate to say it, this is my fifth industry, okay? I'd never seen that type of bloodbath when it comes to hiring people at the executive level, all right? You don't even see that in medicine. >> Mhm. >> And it was like what the heck? Why would that be the case? >> Mhm. >> Until thinking through and talking to other people who'd been at it, the realization came, well, dentists live in such a unique environment, as you mentioned, it's

high stress, but they also live in each other's sandbox. Okay? >> Mhm. >> And because of that, there's nothing else on earth quite like a real marriage ex- except a dental marriage. >> Yeah, that's interesting. You know, when I think about, you know, my my real marriage, you take time to get to know the person, right? You're both it's sort of like a an ongoing working interview, you know? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Are you going to be up to the task? Are you going to be

able to deal with my quirks, you know, my weaknesses and all that? >> Mhm. >> And and when you look at it from a business perspective where of course it's a it's a different dynamic, but very close to a an actual marriage, right? Where you probably spend more time with your business partners than you do with your own spouses. >> Just just just about. >> Yeah. >> And and that and that need for values to be aligned, for how they view money to be aligned, for

the ability to trust each other's dentistry, >> Yeah. >> you know, to to be there matters. And that's why they fall apart is because the groundwork wasn't laid to begin with. As you mentioned, it was an ongoing working interview. You know, I've been married 40 years and the working interview's still going on. >> [laughter] >> Amen to that. >> If you if if you've got a secret, man, let me know. >> [laughter] >> But but there's so much that has to happen up front and sadly

[snorts] as an industry, we've always viewed it through the lens of this is just a business relationship. >> Yes. Yeah, you know, I you actually kind of segued into into one of the first areas that I wanted to talk about was how did how do we get into the this mess, right? You know, and and to kind of uh season that question a little bit from a personal perspective, I've had uh three different failed partnerships in the same business. You know, I'm the last man standing,

fortunately. >> But yeah. >> You know, you partner with best friends and um and those friendships, they die once you go through this whole divorce system. And you mentioned that um the groundwork wasn't laid correctly from the beginning. What are some of some of the things that you need to think about as you consider you know, a a potential partnership or potential associateship, you know, where you're hiring somebody at the executive level level, where do you need to start as a practice owner? >> Mhm. I

I think lots of times we just think they need to have a license and a pulse. And if they check those two boxes and then we like get along and we're kind of friends, maybe we like to golf or whatever it is that oh, we're we're similar enough that we can make this work. >> Mhm. >> Reality is and it's spe- especially dentistry, I think most business partnerships you could probably apply the same principles to, but dentists in specific work so hand-in-hand together that uh if

you're not aligned in a lot of other things other than the fact that you might just both like to play golf and you're you have fun with each other, whatever, um those little undiscovered or maybe undiscussed values and expectations start to boil up and they go from molehills into mountains. Right, so some of the few things that we have really narrowed in on that are success, I mean, that lead to a successful partnership. Um number one is being aligned in how you view money. >> Mhm.

>> Um why people view money in all sorts of different ways. There's not good or bad, it's just how do you view it? Do you view it as a tool? Do you not mind using debt to further along your >> Mhm. >> your business? Do you not like debt? Do you uh like to be flashy, have nice cars, whatever it is? Those values around however you view money, it's really important to be similar. >> So, so similar in the sense of um you know, one doctor

is high risk tolerance, right? They they don't mind taking risks when it comes to investments. And then another doctor is low risk tolerance, right? They're just going to put money in savings, um not very high risk mutual funds, things like that. So, you're saying that they have to be aligned that the one that is if if they're both low risk in terms of money management, they they they'd align better for a long-term partnership or at least a working relationship. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, it it

definitely help. I I don't know if you have to get in so minute of your investment strategies, but definitely of your perspective and how you view it and your relationship with money. >> of money management. >> Yeah, and how you spend it spend it within the practice itself. It really has to do with reward systems. >> Mhm. >> And there are those that view money as the reason that I got into dentistry. You know, I had a neighbor who man, he had the nicest house. He

was able to take vacations with his family. Look great. So now I want the gravy, okay? And that sort of person was someone whose mom washed their baggies out and they had no money at all and they drove a Honda Civic for 20 years. Those two people are not going to get along ultimately because when it comes down to it, they're just going to start to split apart cuz they can't see the vision in terms of where they want the practice to go and why they're

doing what they're doing. >> Mhm. That's fair. >> You know, Simon Sinek brought up this phrase which which we think is is really really profound that begin with why. >> Mhm. >> And and money really becomes a fundamental why. >> Got you. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I you know, >> [clears throat] >> I I was watching this episode one gosh, it was just a short clip of the other day about somebody ask an audience member why they why they

drive a BMW, right? And the person that answered it said, "Well, because it looks nice." And so the speaker's like, "You So you're telling me that you you're spending $1,700 a month to drive a car to look good to people that drive the BMW Yeah. >> Yeah, you impress people you don't know. >> Yeah. [laughter] So So under that example, I mean, you [clears throat] know, I I could see that as when you have a different philosophy where the more conservative um doctor that spends money

on the essentials, not the flashy stuff. >> Mhm. >> Um I've seen that even in neighborhood relationships. You know, you have this whole idea of keeping up with the Joneses. >> Yeah. >> And then the one family on the on the corner of they don't care. Like, you know, we'll focus on taking care of our families, but we have different philosophies on how we uh we handle our money. So, you see those dynamics in day-to-day life, right? Where the ones that are keeping up with the

Joneses their friends because they're competing against each other and the ones that are living conservatively tend to always all all be friends, too, because they they they they're aligned aligned with their personal values, right? >> [clears throat] >> They probably relate better when they just have basic conversations with each other, right? Just like just like dating or married. >> And I mean, yeah, and going back to the marriage idea. Yeah, you and your wife or you and your spouse or whoever you and your partner need

to be It definitely helps if you're aligned on how you view money. What's the one one of the number one reasons for divorce out there is cuz of financial stress and how you view money, right? So, we play apply the same type of principle when you're looking to form a new what we call a dental marriage with a new associate or partnership. >> I like that. So, that's number one. This kind of reminds me of uh you know, my single days guys a long time ago,

eHarmony's seven points of compatibility, [laughter] right? >> Yeah. >> Um and this is sort of a version more more of a professional version of the matchmaker concept, right? What's number two on that list? >> Exactly. What we find number two, Ben, is and it's funny that you bring up eHarmony, um cuz what Brighton and I are putting together is a company called Dentists Hiring Pros. And our whole purpose is to try to align practices who need associates with the ideal associate. Okay, not just a pulse,

not just a license, but somebody who really fits the culture and fits the doctor and fits the team. You know, you talked about the three divorces that you've been through and I got in business with a friend and you know, it didn't turn out. It reminds me last year I was talking to a someone who is an active client right now and he had this one friend of his from dental school who came in and would do, you know, one or two days here or there.

And I started asking me he saying, you know, I I really think I could partner with this guy. And I'm saying, well, tell me more about him and and the the the owner doctor is a little more serious, a lot more hands-on, super fast with technology, his practice is doing amazing, but this other guy would come in and he'd be a jokester, he he his he wasn't on time, he'd spend maybe too much time talking to the staff and he was just kind of a class

clown, okay? And the more he told me about him, I started thinking, you know, I just don't know. I know Felix and Oscar got along, but that was a contrived situation, okay? >> [clears throat] >> So, so I said, well, listen, you know, doctor, let's do this. Let's let's run a DISC survey on you and a DISC survey on him and then I don't know if you've heard of that. It's pretty common in dentistry, but it's just a quick personality profile, okay? To really kind of

get under the hood and see what makes this one person tick, what makes this other person tick in terms of communication style, making decisions, risk tolerance, conflict, etc. Well, lo and behold, you know, the owner doctor, man, he he's a very conscientious, perfectionist doctor and this other person that he was thinking of bringing on the board was this enormous influencer, okay? Who could sell anything to anybody, but when you understand this methodology, you understand that, you know, that type of personality also doesn't listen very well,

doesn't pay attention necessarily, can't uh really stay on time, and the reality came down to, "Listen, you know, you guys can be friends, but if you decide to get married, then it's going to end up in a really bad train wreck pretty soon." Cuz he's just not going to fit. Well, guess who had the job then to tell his buddy, "You're [laughter] not a fit." It was me, brother. >> Oh, man. That's not always easy, right, Bob? Like >> It's not, no. >> It's almost like

you're firing somebody and um >> In in some ways, but it was the right thing to do. >> Right. >> And and and I think his buddy took it well. I know the hiring dentist took it really well, and then we found somebody using our criteria, doing our homework, understanding, you know, personality styles, uh how they view money, type of dentistry they like to do, and we found the perfect guy, and he's been with this doctor now for month seven, and he just cleared 100,000 in

production this month. >> Ooh. Wow. So, I guess >> So, when you find the right person, the cool thing is it's magic. >> Yeah. Yeah, I love that. It it it kind of makes the whole um what is that saying? Opposites attract? So, this is like So, you're saying that's not always true. >> That's [laughter] not always true, not in a business partnership, [snorts] no. You can you can have complementary characteristics, but there are times that they just automatically conflict. >> So, what about >> Especially

when you've got a senior doctor that's already created a culture. >> Yeah, I see. >> Yeah, and I And I think it's even more so that I don't know if they're necessarily opposites or I you know, it's hard to you don't want to put people in pigeonholes or boxes or anything like that, but some relationships definitely take more effort. >> Mhm. >> Um and more energy. And so if if you can maybe set yourself up to success set yourself up from success from the very beginning,

make sure you kind of are aligned in as many things as possible, it prevents less likely to to fail in the future. So that's why it's you know, it's really important that you do understand how you communicate and how someone you might partner with communicates because those are really easy ways to start to cause problems down the line. >> So this is sort of like you know, when you're looking for candidates to come and work with you you're doing a lot more than just a working

interview, right? You're I'm assuming you're running this DISC assessment, personality assessment, a questionnaire, multiple interviews, right? And at the end of the the day I'm I'm putting myself in the shoes of that doctor where you said, "Look, you guys are just not a fit, you know." In in his world >> [clears throat] >> probably a little bit crushed, right? But I'm sure you painted it from the perspective of look you're going to find something where when there's a better fit thing the magic happens. But when

you when you really try to push two people together that are incompatible, there's always going to be things like conflict, right? Or a lot of conflict. Um that could interfere with your personal potential growth, right? So I think for myself as an individual like if I'm attending a working interview and I'm being told "No, that's not necessarily being saying that you suck, right?" It's like, "Well, you're probably better fit with somebody else. Let's [clears throat] go help find somebody else, right?" >> Absolutely. You always want

to be thinking win-win and that's how we approach it at Dental Success We want to find a win for the associate. We want them to be happy or the new partner, we want them to be happy, them to be excited, them to be content. And if they don't match up with these similar values, they're not going to be happy either. You know, if you take someone that loves living in Manhattan, New York is a super city folk, and then you go and put them into the

middle of nowhere, Virginia or South Dakota or something like that, they're just not going to be happy. Uh you know, we So you do you want to set both people up for success, and so you got to think think win-win. >> That's awesome. I want to kind >> So so Ben, just and just just to throw one more piece of of information out there. I mean, we formalize it to the extent where Dental A-Team Pros, we actually create what we call an avatar. >> Mhm. >>

[clears throat] >> Okay, and so we know what that ideal candidate's going to look like. >> Ah, so before you even bring somebody in, you have an >> Yes, that's exactly right. Yep, we know those characteristics. And then that's what we survey to, that's what we interview to, that's what we check references on, all of that. That's the benchmark. >> Yeah, we are we are never Sorry, Bob, interrupt you there. We're we're we're never comparing candidates A to candidate B. We're always comparing candidate A, candidate

B, candidate C to our ideal candidate. >> Got you. >> We're not trying to pick what's the best of the litter, we're trying who's the best for our practice. >> Yeah, this this reminds me on how um the big corporations hire executives. Um Ah gosh, it was more than 15 years ago when I went through something like this, and they said, "You're based upon your skill set, you you kind of fit that mold of what they're looking for. So so you're in a a short list

of candidates for this position." And it was very very similar to what I'm hearing here. Um why So in terms of creating that avatar and then you go out and you find your associates. What about this whole concept of there's been a shortage of potential associateship candidates or even hygienist candidates, right? So, I'm I'm assuming what you're talking about here probably applies to more than just hiring a doctor, right? You can apply these same concepts for any position in the dental practice. But, how do you

deal with the issue of workforce shortages or are there workforce shortages these days? >> It's a good and fair question. >> Yeah, there were workforce shortages all over the place because COVID had 10% of the hygienist step out and only half of them have come back and others have decided they were going to sit on the sidelines while more COVID money was kind of spread throughout the whole country. And and it has impacted the entire industry. Now, at Dentist Hiring Pros, we're zeroing in specifically on

that associate relationship because we think that's where that's the foundation of an entire practice. >> Yeah. >> But, we have found that kind of circling back into the whole idea of flip your focus. >> Mhm. >> Okay? The practices that are well-led and have a very healthy culture and also pay not at the top of the market, but pay fairly within the market, they rarely have a problem trying to bring people on board. >> Yeah. >> They become magnets, okay? And and their team members that

are looking for that type of environment to be in because they know what it's like to when they don't have it. >> You know, that that brings to mind um, what when I shifted how we did things last June. Um, we sort of became known among candidates cuz we started hiring and we had for a single position, we had over 200 applicants. >> Mhm. >> And it's crazy in most dental practices where they put out an advertisement, they'd be lucky to get a response in a

week or two, right? >> Right. >> Um and I I I I'm living in this world where I kind of feel like the pandemic issues with workforce shortages didn't apply to me. For some reason, what we we do is different. But as I looked at it, the bonuses and how we put in place, the compensation package, um the testimonials from our current employees and what they were saying about what what we do to their own friends that they were saying, "Hey, you got to apply here."

We had a long line of people that we had to turn away. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and I think it was because of that whole leadership dynamic change, right? >> Mhm. >> people in the business, your your own employees felt invested, right? Where they wanted to be surrounded by people that they thought would be the ideal candidates for our business. So I can see that where there are some practices uh that would put out advertisements and then they would fly in people

from Alaska, doctors from Alaska to come out clear to New York. You know, these doctors in Alaska that are interested in these positions, right? So I So I guess it it it in terms of that, you know, tying in your your book Flip Your Focus, at least the the leadership dynamic compared to what you guys do with dentists hiring pros on building that avatar, eliminating this whole idea behind dental the dental divorce cycle, it's far beyond that, in my opinion. I mean, this is this is

a system to run an efficient business all around, right? >> Mhm. >> It is. And in in a in a thriving partnership >> Yeah. >> in the end, cuz that's really our goal is to create thriving practices and thriving partnerships that love what they do. >> Yeah. I love And >> it's very very possible to to to make that a reality. >> In dentistry, I've never heard of anybody else doing this. So, I think you guys are going to be successful in this because it's needed,

right? Every practice owner that has hired an an associate can relate. They've been They've had divorces a few times, right? Or multiple times. >> Mhm. >> In fact, we do credentialing for doctors and less than 6 months into the credentialing process, doctor's gone. >> They're gone. Yeah. What happened to them? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Every single day. Well, I love this, guys. I So, how So, for doctors that are listening to this that are saying, "This is for me. I need this." Where Where

can they go to either contact you or learn more? >> Yeah, the the best place is just go to our website, dentisthiringpros.com. Uh on that website, there's a form you can fill out or schedule an appointment. You can talk directly with myself or Bob. Um we'd love to have a conversation to see if you're ready to to bring on an associate. Um one of the really important parts of our process is actually vetting the practice to see if they're ready. Lots of times doctors think, "I'm

too busy. I'm I've too much going on. I need an associate. I need this." And what happens when we kind of peel back the you know, get under the hood and start looking at what's actually happening in the practice, lots of times they're not prepared and and we have to turn people away and they need to go back, start reading Flip Your Focus, and and transitioning their practice into doing more with what they currently have. Um but that's the best place, dentisthiringpros.com, uh and you can

contact us there directly. Um one thing and I if we can, then I I don't want to end this real quick. There's one third piece of that causes dental divorces that I think is really important that we touch on really fast. And that is uh not having and it sounds super simple, but not having clear expectations for the future when you form a new partnership. Uh I cannot tell you how many conversations we have with Dennis that lost an associate recently or they've gone through five

or 10 or whatever it is and we find out that there was never a conversation about what's the future for this associate. Is there a partnership track here? Is there a carrot out there that I can work for? That we have found that one of the most important parts of creating a a thriving and lasting associateship is to make sure that there is a sort of ownership partnership track on the cards at some point in the future. We're not saying that you hire an associate and

in a year they get to buy 50% of your practice. Maybe in some circumstances that's okay, but for most time we would not encourage that. We would say look to 3 to 5-year window and make sure it's a conversation that is established from the beginning that we are going to have that in 3 years, 4 years, 5 years, 7 years, whatever it is, whatever you're comfortable with, we will have a conversation about how do we become partners in ownership in the business because that carrot even

though it may seem simple is what can really help people work towards the same goals and help them stick around when things might get a little tough. Um and then kind of a sub part of that is it's very helpful if you form a new partnership to what we to have what we call marriage counseling. So part of our process is after we've brought on we've gone through the matchmaker phase we're then through the priest phase of forming the new partnership and marriage. We then stay

engaged as marriage counselors, as third-party consultants if you will, to help overcome some of those little problems that are going to come up as we form new relationships. You're going to have to fight through it. I mean, I don't know how many people you know, but the first year of marriage is always the hardest, right? And so it's because so many new things you have to work through and having that marriage counselor is super helpful to be able to work through some of those problems. So,

I I did I did I thought we would do a disservice if we didn't cover some of those things really fast. So, I'm sorry to extend this a little longer. >> thank you. >> And and Ben, just just so you know, >> [clears throat] >> that process has allowed us, you know, remember I said at the beginning, 75% failure rate. >> Mhm. >> Um the coolest thing is that process has allowed us over the past 10 years to have a 90% success rate. >> Wow. Wow.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. 90 per 90% success rate. Yeah, and and and and it's because of the magic of being really clear up front, >> Mhm. >> being really clear through the process, being really clear as Brighton brought up for the expectations and the outcome, and then having someone who can help kind of get work through some of the issues that just always pop up in the beginning. >> Yeah. >> And yet be dis- interested and help both parties not get at each other, but learn

from each other. >> Mhm. >> And and that's that's the reward to us is when we see that type of success happen like the associate that I told you with this one guy, um you know, he did a 100,000 this month and it's like the coolest thing is that he did it in alignment with the owner doctor, in alignment with the team, they all loved this guy, and it's just once again, magic. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Makes a world of difference. >> Makes all the

difference in the world. Actually, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. I can attest to that on a personal level. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right relationships in business is so important. Gosh, you guys you guys should start dentistonly.com, you know, kind of like farmersonly.com. [laughter] But in this case, match make dentists to each other, yeah. For real marriages. That's what it is. No, but this is this is this is so important because it I mean like you mentioned it it is it's essentially a marriage, right? >> It is.

It is. And it's the foundation. And as goes the partnership, so goes the practice. Exactly. >> Yeah. And and I think uh it's been accepted in the industry for so long that you know it's just it's just kind of is how it is, you know? Um but the reality is if you actually think about the cost, the hard cost, and the opportunity cost of every single one of those two courses, you're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars for every time between hard cash and opportunity cost.

And so it's a cost and it's expense and it's a stress and it overwhelm and all those things that you don't have to experience. >> Yep. >> There I we're we're telling you there there is hope, there is a model that works, and uh we'd love the opportunity to be able to help more people solve that pain in their lives. >> I love this. It's so it's so fun to see dentistry improving. My 15 years in dentistry I've seen so many different improvements to the industry

in a way that helps practice owners remove a lot of the stress of running a business and and treating patients. And to me in in a day and age where the associateship model is on the rise, right? There's a lot of practices that do need associateships. 75 well, 75% failure rate, having a system to cut that down to a a potential 10% failure rate or a a 90% success rate is phenomenal. So congratulations, guys, on building this. Let's get this out. Let's let people know cuz

I think what you have is uh uh it'll save these marriages. It'll save these these types of relationships for the better. Um gentlemen, so we've we've just about hit uh the end of our time block here for this episode. So, we're going to post this in the show notes for those of you that might be driving or otherwise occupied with other things. Um, dentist hiringpros.com as well as we'll put a link in the show notes on where to find uh, Bob's book on Flip Your Focus.

And I believe it's actually written on Do you have Robert or is it Bob on the book? I can't remember. >> It's Bob. It's Bob. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> you see if you see Bob's book or he also, you know, the uh uh, goes by Robert Speel, but Bob Speel is is what you'll find on the Flip Your Focus book. Gentlemen, any closing thoughts for this episode today? >> Just one last thing for me, Ben, is the other thing that we love to help people do

is if you are in a struggling uh, dental relationship, if you will, we also love helping current partnerships see success. So, we we also love to dive in, meet with you, find ways to realign and get back on track so that you can continue to build for the future. Uh, and you can reach us at the same place, dentist hiring pros, for that, but it's it's something that we're passionate about is creating thriving associateships, partnerships, and teams in and out of the dental dental industry. So.

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. >> And And Ben, I'll I'll just say that, you know, it's it's it's awesome to be to be online with you right now. Um, the longer that I'm in the industry, the more I kind of have viewed that that dentistry really has two Achilles' heels. And one is insurance, and that's something that you are very passionate about helping practices, you know, learn how to navigate. But, the other is the inability to replicate dentists. >> [snorts] >> Okay, and both of those

have hampered, in in particular, private practice dentistry from really continuing to leverage itself. All right? And I'm excited just be able to share right now. I'm excited to share that there is hope, that there there are answers that we don't have to just accept this number like one dentist we were talking to and shared that number with and he just kind of reflectively sat back and said is there anything we can do about that? You know, it's like it is like what heck yes there is.

I mean that's why we're here, you know, we we we really can do something about it. You just have to change your thinking about it, okay? >> And and the other thing too is if you're an associate and you're working at a practice you're not happy or you're in a DSO or whatever it is and you want to get back in private practice, we also have a form on our website that you can go fill out and book an appointment and see what opportunities we have

that we're that we're currently hiring for. So, >> [music] >> both sides there's if you're if you're an associate or a practice, we love to to form that marriage with you. So. >> That's perfect. [music] Gentlemen, thank you so much. This is this is probably one of the more important [music] episodes that we've done in a while as it pertains to sort of a new and revolutionary way to address an issue that has been a major problem [music] in dentistry forever, right? So, thank you gentlemen

again. Those of you that are listening to this, check out the show notes for more information for Bob and and Brighton's contact information, but Bob and Brighton, thank you so much for being on the program today. Of course, we're going to look forward to another follow-up to see how things are going with you guys in the near future, but uh appreciate you both. Thank you so much. >> It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. >> Very good. And to our listeners, be happy, be healthy,

and we wish you the best of success. >> [music] [music] >> Mhm.