What AI Can’t Replace in Dentistry - Dr. Mark Costes

Welcome to the navigating dental insurance podcast where we don't [music] take from insurance companies. Here are your hosts, Mr. Jordan Comstock and Mr. Ben Tuinei. >> [music] >> This podcast is sponsored by BoomCloud Dental Membership Software, www.boomcloudapps.com, [music] and Veritas [music] Dental Resources, www.veritasdentalresources.com. Enjoy the [music] show. >> What's up everybody and welcome to another exciting episode of the navigating dental insurance podcast. I'm your host today, Jordan Comstock. Ben is stuck in Miami on a plane, but I got another cool guest today, Dr. Mark Costes.

What is up, Mark? How you doing, brother? >> What is up? Thank you so much for uh making time for me today. This is awesome. You got You got Hawaii in the background, but I think that's fake. >> It It's totally fake. Yep. Um but I do uh I love Hawaii. Yes. I'm I'm there quite a bit every so often. >> Yeah, [laughter] it's interesting, man. I The The last probably 6-8 months, you and I probably communicated more than we did in the previous 10 years

that we've been >> Right. >> Yeah, I mean, we've we've had our we've had our entire team go over to to kind of look at your your workflow and um super impressed with what you've built, dude. Um I I don't want to sound like an old grandpa that's condescending, but proud of you, [laughter] man. >> Dude, well well, I we if we rewind rewind back the clock far enough, uh I think your podcast was the very first podcast that I got on when I started BoomCloud.

>> same thing. >> It's cuz we all were in the same era here and you We're all Utah guys, and I think what happened is Ben Tuinei, who everyone knows on this show, was on your show, and I'm like, "Ben, how did you grow your company, bro?" Like, this is like when I was like 27, I think, 28. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. >> And Ben's like, "Oh, I just got on some podcasts." I'm like, "Oh, cool. Do you know anybody that's that's cool to get on?"

And he's like, Mark Costes and Gary Takacs were the two people he introduced me to. And the same thing happened with Corey uh here in Utah, and I'm like, "Mark Costes and Gary Takacs." >> [laughter] >> And I think we all just started networking around the same time cuz we we all started around the same time. >> You know, it's interesting. I mean, just now I opened a piece of physical mail. It was from Course Karma. >> Okay. >> Chase from Course Karma, and and he

has like this directory of of podcasts. He said now on his podcast directory 350 dental podcasts. >> Holy smokes. >> I thought it was somewhere around 200. When we started, it was Gary, me, Howard, The Dental Hacks, and David. There's five of us. >> Like five, yeah. >> This is about 11 years ago. Uh we started ours like June 10th, 2015. Never missed an episode since. Five days a week, every single week. >> Yeah. >> June 10th of 2015. >> Man, you've done a lot of

podcasts. Yeah, that's that's incredible. >> Um it is it's my it's my outlet. I love I love talking to people about this stuff. It sharpens the sword, but also uh gives me an excuse to talk to people like you and people that are super smart in the industry that are innovating. Uh I feel like I have my finger on the pulse of dental technology cuz a lot of >> Yeah. >> technology companies want to talk on on on the podcast. So, it's it's been the the

podcast has been the biggest gift of of anything in dentistry for me. >> I mean, I I think for for me as well do it running our podcast here for for several years now, and the the the thing that I look for most is the networking end of it. The the um obviously we get a lot of customers that come and hang out with us on the podcast. Um Um, but talking to just like what you said, talking to guys like you, that's been more impactful

for me running my own company than anything. The networking effect, the byproduct of a podcast, right? >> [laughter] >> For sure. >> So >> Always unintended side effects. Some of Some are negative, most are positive when it comes to >> [laughter] >> just talking about the same thing every day, different nuances of it. People are always like, "Dude, you have like 3,000 episodes. How do you not run out of stuff to talk about?" >> [laughter] >> I I never ever ever run out of stuff to

talk about cuz everybody sees things through a slightly different lens. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Working in different subsegments of of the profession. And then I I love talking about personal development and all other things, too. So, that really never you you I don't think it's possible to run out of topics. >> No, I So, I'm I do a a podcast for the the SaaS industry, too. At least I I I guessed I guess I guessed a lot on on software industry podcasts, and there's never enough

time to share the insights that I'm gathering day-to-day. So, I would imagine it's very similar to what you're experiencing. Day-to-day, you're seeing, you know, problems that you're solving, and and within those problems, there are smaller problems that need to be solved, right? And it's just kind of never-ending content. >> Yeah, [laughter] never-ending content. You know what's interesting, dude? I was I was doing some research for my um for my summit presentation, and there's so many interesting things that have happened in our profession just over the

last 15 years. Like reimbursements for PPOs pretty much flat, not keeping up with >> Oh, no. It's the same the same story. >> Yeah, yet the the cost of doing business is up about 90% between 85 and 90% in that same period of time. Um, and just since COVID, the cost of humans and we're talking about um hygienists and and uh dental assistants, front desk >> The wage inflation. >> Yeah, it's gone up 30 to 35% just since It's That's like 5 years. >> And COVID,

it spiked, too, didn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you got all this wage inflation and cost inflation running the practice, and yet PPOs >> 170 170% increase in tuition since uh >> Oh, jeez. >> Since 2010. Um so, I mean, think about all these external factors that are that are decreasing the margins in dental practices. You have to be self-educated. You have to understand what's happening in your business from a leadership perspective, systemization perspective, a P&L and and cost analysis uh and profitability perspective. All

of those things are more important now than they've ever been. >> Yeah. >> And I I think that a lot of people rely so heavily on AI for their content and information, and I think it's a really a positive thing. But, you have to know uh because of AI and search engines and and all of the stuff out there, knowledge is kind of a commodity now. So, >> Yeah. I mean, we're what? We exited the information age, now we're in the intelligent age, and it's all

it's all content education, right? >> It is. It is. And And there's only so far you can go with information. Information is so important, and if but if you are like a coach or a consultant that is just literally taking information that they get off AI and repurposing it and sending it back out into the world, that doesn't do anybody any good cuz everybody has that at their fingertips. >> Yes. >> I think what's really really important is kind of what you and I have alluded

to. It's that human contact, whether it's virtual or live. Um having somebody that's there to kind of support you and hold you accountable and help you integrate things in that that information, that content that you have gathered um into practical use. Um you know, it's just like having your programming, we were talking off air, you know, having your programming done by AI as far as your your workouts and your diet and all that stuff, you can have all of that information, but you still I I

I still think that a coach is really really important. You can you can download everything about a perfect golf swing. >> Um yeah, you can. >> But you can't you can't utilize that that uh PDF that that chat creates about a perfect golf swing and and uh you know, be a Yeah, a best golfer. >> And even me for for my own experience, Mark, I have always been an entrepreneur business owner that has had like mentors and coaches uh on a regular basis since I started

my company even today with all the AI which it it's super helpful and useful. I have coaches that I meet with weekly uh to help me develop my company because um well, AI is is only good as the data you give it. So if you give it um poor data, it's actually has a worse effect. If you give it poor data, you're going to compound uh bad outputs, right? Where like in the information age where um you would go and like search something on Google, you're

you're like getting third-party information, right? And be like, "Oh yeah, this this guy wrote this article and it's saying X about some business strategy, right?" So you're getting some experience, but the problem with uh AI is most people don't put in the right data to get the right responses that that create accuracy, right? Um and sometimes you to get that data, you you may need a coach cuz you may not know how to get certain type of data. I'll give you an example. >> Yes, please.

>> So in my business, um we operate off of a [snorts] lot of numbers, right? So a lot of like marketing and sales numbers. So we get X amount of leads every every month and then from there we look at how many of those leads turn into demos uh which are like appointments for their appointments, right? Like just like a in the dentist, we've got my sales reps are like dentists, right? The appointments are like butts in chairs, right, in dentistry. And then um the conversion

rate for uh when a when a uh a practice, in my case, says yes to buying our software, that's case acceptance, right? Or treatment acceptance, however you want to look at it. So, um when you you if you guess on any of those data points in in my funnel, you and then put that in AI without uh like even if it's if you're missing one data point. And this just happened to me, Mark, that's why it's fresh on the mind. >> [laughter] >> Um even if

you're you're missing one small data point, and then you put you input it into Chat GPT, for example, it's going to go off what you just gave it, but it's inaccurate cuz if if we missed in my in my scenario, I missed uh leads to connection rate, which is like conversations, right? And it spit out all sorts of uh ideas and strategies to go with with without all the data. So, AI is only good as the data you feed it, is what I've noticed. >> It's

It's so true. And and that's why there's so many people coaching on like like what is the prompt, you know? >> Yes. Prompting's important. >> Everybody that Everybody that's used even chat for a basic question knows that, you know, the the the quality of the prompt that you create has has so much to do with the the information that you're able to gather. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and all of that is >> Well, to today, Mark, like I don't even go If I'm using Chat GPT,

I don't even go into into an open an open session. I go create a project and I upload all my data points into it first, and then I have certain prompt prompts that I use to So, it's prompt plus data design from my experience. >> Yeah, I mean, that's how you teach it, right? So, everything about you, everything about that specific specific query >> If you're not doing that, you're it's just danger town, right? You're you're getting poor advice hence like all the AI stuff. I

I have mentors and coaching very similar to what you do, Mark, which like I'm part of a mastermind of others like software founders, bootstrap software founders. It It reminds me a lot of what you've done in dentistry. And I like prioritize meeting with with that group of people more than anything because then I have boots on the ground uh experience versus just chat GPT experience. >> [laughter] >> You know what I mean? >> I'm curious as to like the the delineation of coaching between what you

get coached on and what Justin gets coached on. Justin being your your brother and the COO of your company, right? >> Yeah, yeah. >> What what is he learning and what he's what is he getting coached on versus >> Well, yeah, this is this is transferable right into dentistry, too, right? So, I I when I get I get coached on GTM strategy, which stands for go-to-market or marketing and sales strategy. Um Uh and and like nobody really sits down and says, "Well, you got to create

your vision like this, Jordan." That's not part of my strategy. Like I know what I want, what I'm trying to achieve as a as a visionary entrepreneur, right? Um most of my my coaching from uh you know, my resources are all sales and marketing strategies. Cuz that's the biggest challenge. No matter what industry you're in, if you don't have distribution or if you don't know how to get your next client or customer or patient, then you're you got some big big prob- big trouble. So, that's

that's like mainly what I focus on is the strategy for go-to-market. Uh Justin's strategy or like what he gets coached on is all things operations, meaning so like EOS is a big thing. So I know you're going to have Gino come speak at your event here soon. So that's all Justin focuses on is is that. So like for example, today I said, "Hey, our uh our connect our connect connection rate when a rep makes a phone call and connects with the practice owner, it's oddly down,

right? We need to look at that. So Justin then goes and investigates, okay, operationally what what tool do we need to put in place there to fix this problem, right? So I look at like the strategy and the the issues and I say, "Go find a tool that can help with that." And then he'll go down and So most of his stuff is all operational focused, all operational management focused, which is a challenge cuz he's dealing with the people more than I am. I'm not dealing

with I'm not doing like one-on-ones with people and all that. So he's constantly getting trained on how to speak to people. I'm a little jealous though cuz his skill set when he he can speak to people really well. He's he's well trained on crucial conversations and uh EOS like one-on-one type stuff. So I'm a jealous cuz I can't I'm not very good at talking to people that way. I get frustrated. I'm like, "Can't they just do it right the first time?" >> [laughter] >> You know

what I mean? >> Yeah, I mean that's a that's a whole other skill set, man. And and I don't >> It really is. Yeah, it's >> You as a CEO and a visionary, you don't necessarily have to to worry about those conversations if you have a Justin. >> Exactly. If if if you're not, which probably most dentists are kind of a hybrid, right? >> Right, yeah. They either they either I mean so few people have like a level 10 office manager regional director director of operations.

Um some of the larger operators do, but even even still at a large scale, it's hard to find those people. They they don't grow on trees and a lot of times it's a development process and they have to understand kind of your culture and you as a as a human, what you're going for. >> Oh, big time. >> And they have to have the skill set like literally like a Fortune 500 type skill set in order to help you grow and duplicate that portion of the

business. >> Yeah, and I I feel like I lucked out cuz my operator is my twin brother and we we operated the dental lab together and we know, you know, our strengths and weaknesses like really well. So, which yeah, unfortunately you can't find these types of people easy, but when you do hold on to them because they're worth every every penny, in my opinion. >> I'm going to I'm going to interview you for a second. Just just a couple questions. >> [laughter] >> First and foremost,

I mean, like since you and I started this thing, I started DSI 14 years ago now. >> Yeah. >> Uh BoomCloud is 10 years old. >> Yep. Yeah, and I started building it um two years prior to the So, it's 12 12 years from idea to today. So, yeah, not too far after you. >> Um I mean I've seen a shift in the marketplace in a lot of different ways. What are some of the big shifts that you've seen in in consumer behavior or just our

profession in general? Uh because you're getting feedback from your sales team, but you used to be the sales team. You used to be the CEO. You used to be everything. You've worn every hat. Are Is there any kind of anything that sticks out as like some of the bigger bigger themes that you're seeing as far as a change in the the way that the industry thinks? >> Yeah, so yeah, a couple things. So, one that the problem remains the same, right? The and you just you

hit it pretty hard at the at the beginning where you said uh well, it's now it's a compounded problem where inflation we got wave wage inflation cost uh inflation happening, but then the PPOs are are are acting the same. Right? So, that's one thing that has remained constant, which is a big surprise to me. Um I don't know why it is, but it is. Um So, and right now you're seeing more and more practices kind of kind of panicking harder than what I where I've seen

like 10 years ago. It was more like practices coming to us and they're like, "Oh, yeah. Uh membership plans are a great idea." Today, you're seeing more and more practices really frustrated operating their businesses because of what you just addressed, right? So, I think that's a huge thing that that I would agree on with what you're saying. Uh a second thing is that I'm seeing is that um there's a more and more practices and practice owners, I would say, aren't understanding um the importance of of

attracting the right types of patients. That's been the biggest thing that I've seen and that that I obsess over, you know, in my in my world over here at BoomCloud, right? Um they they they're still so focused on, you know, a PPO strategy and and maybe some Google Ads to just get just any patient through the door when it's like, "Okay, there's there's really different several different types of patients." And a good operator would sit down and say, "Okay, what type of patient should we design

everything around, design our marketing around, our verbage around?" And start attracting those. I think that's a even bigger problem in the industry cuz garbage in, garbage out. We used to say that in the dental lab. The same thing with with patient types. Um low-quality patients that that bring in low low revenue or or PPO reduced revenue, garbage in, garbage out, >> [laughter] >> right? Same thing with it's the same thing with like impressions, right? You get a bad impression, send it to a lab, garbage in,

garbage out. >> [laughter] >> You're not going to save anything in in in future steps of the process if you have a bad if you have >> Yeah, and the same thing that there's the same pattern is what we just addressed with AI. Garbage in, garbage out. You don't give enough data or a poor prompt, you're going to put garbage in and get garbage out. It's that that's a that's another pattern that's just everywhere. Right? And in in operating a a dental practice, uh it seems

like there's there's just a lot of layers of that, right? And we don't have enough time to go into every layer of operating a dental practice on this episode, but it seems like that's kind of the trend as well that when you see things, you know, even you accept a certain PPO, a bad PPO, garbage in, garbage out. Garbage in, garbage out everywhere. So, I don't know. That's that's just my world, but I'm I'm like in a very isolated pocket in dentistry. I'm only looking at

that side of dentistry, right? Patient type. >> but what you have though is you have access to a lot of data, right? And anytime you [clears throat] work with a dental practice, it just opens up another insight, another small window into >> Yeah. >> what what private practice owners are are dealing with. And uh things have changed. >> Yeah, things have changed. Yeah. What have What have you noticed, Mark, since I mean, you same thing. You're talking to you're coaching a lot of practices. You have

your eyes on the full picture of a practice, where I'm more like if you look at like where Boom Cloud sits, it's more patient attraction, patient re- retention area and and revenue optimization, right? Um but you see the full kind of picture of a practice. What What's changed since 10 10 14 years? >> Yeah, I mean, part of what I've seen is exactly what you alluded to and what I alluded to in the beginning is just the the changes in the cost of doing business has

increased significantly. Uh the workforce is definitely contracted, especially since COVID. So, getting qualified humans is is more much more expensive and and still even difficult to do if you can find them. >> When are those robots coming out? I'm sure you can train one, right? >> Well, I mean, there you go. Back to AI and [laughter] and right now we're in gen one of AI. People are still hanging up on on, you know, AI agents if if if somebody if if an AI agent picks up

the phone to try to schedule an appointment, an incoming phone call, it captures [clears throat] some of those missed phone calls phone calls that would have been missed, but it's still a low take rate from a consumer standpoint. >> I have on that for my own uh phone call efforts is the the human humans still have a higher uh uh success rate with phone calls. I would never build an AI uh phone receptionist or whatever. There there are other there we I have built AI employees

um that are doing stuff daily, but they're more like SEO type uh marketing employees that they're not talking to uh customers. >> Yeah, not consumer fo- faced. >> Yeah, they're not consumer faced. So, that's the I would I would be careful with that because even my data says that cuz we've tested this. We had when when our when our reps, which is equivalent to your guys's front office team, has a phone call with a practice or in your guys's case a a a patient or potential

patient, um and they book a demo, the hold rate is 71%. When an automated system does it, the hold rate is 18%. That's the new data that I just have from my own process. So, I would Yeah, I would be careful with cuz there's all this hype on uh get a phone uh AI phone assistant. Like there's all this hype, but measure it first before you make a decision. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. >> There's certain things that you I mean, certain things

that AI is good at and they should be you know, utilized for and certain things that humans will probably never be replaced. Um I think customer-facing uh customer service type things, I think people will always prefer a human to a robot. >> Yeah. Yeah, we still have we have humans doing stuff like all AI does is help you help elevate the human to do more impactful tasks, which is great. That's what we want. >> [laughter] >> You know what I mean? Even even with like coaching

Mark it it it probably elevates you to help coach practices faster and better, you know? Coaching is still required. Now you can do it at a faster rate and and and brainstorm with it if you need to faster and and help diagnose faster. That's all it's doing. It's not I don't envision it replacing people. Maybe robotics as they come in that you'll start seeing robotics do that but very uh like jobs that are very redundant. You'll see that happen but you know, it's like it's really

interesting though. >> Another big thing that I've seen is people are selling their practices much younger than they used to. >> Oh, interesting. >> It's not uncommon to see you know late 30s early 40s selling a a large uh high volume practice that's very profitable that still has some meat on the bone. You know, people are taking the people are taking their chips off the table earlier than they used to. Um >> What do you know like the reason why Mark? >> Well, I mean if

you think about it if you are an 18-year-old graduating senior from high school and you go straight through some of these some of these gunners are graduating in 3 years and and 3 or 4 years. So you're looking at 21, 22 years old when you graduate from undergrad. Um and then they're getting into dental school at that age. Uh graduating 25, 26-year-old professional. >> Yep. >> Um you know, 12 months after graduation they are buying or starting their own first practice. So you you could be

you could be a 27, 26-year-old practice owner. Um 10, 12 years later you're 36, 37 years old. >> Yep. >> You have built up a ton of equity. Um and depending on what you believe as far as you know, the prognosticators that are saying that you know, we're going to be 60 to 70% consolidated in the next, you know, 5 to 8 years. >> They've been saying that for so much so long. >> saying that for the last 10 years. >> I know. >> But depending

on what you believe, like people might think that they're they want to um take advantage of the high valuations that are still going on. They They're nothing compared to what they were in '15, '16, but um they are still higher than they might be in the future if consolidation con- continues. So, um a lot of people are taking their chips off the table earlier and um working back and then hoping for that second payment to be substantial as well. >> Interesting. So, they're selling their their

their business, their practice, and then starting another one. Is that what Is that a common trend? Or they're done? >> The The traditional uh PE-backed DSO is going to purchase you for some percentage of your valuation cash at close. Usually 60 >> 70%. >> say 60 to 70%, maybe 80. >> So, you're you're either a joint venture where you still retain ownership in that 30 to 40% or there's some sort of a hybrid where some of that ownership is um uh stock in the hold co,

the big organization, and some is some is stock in your your uh practice. Um but the the whole idea here is that the retained equity, the what you haven't gotten in cash, is going to go back into this pot that's going to grow over the next um 3 to 5 years, which is the recap cycle. >> Yeah, the first bite, second bite of the apple type. >> Exactly. So, you're hoping to get a premium on on on the second payment, which in in most cases, people

are hoping that it's going to be, you know, bigger than the first payment, even though it's a smaller percentage. And some >> done right, it should be, yeah. >> That's right. [laughter] And and and if if everything continues, if there's still a bigger fish that's going to buy you, and the consolidation wave continues, you know, um Wall Street is still interested in dental practices. There's a lot of There's a lot of what-ifs, but there's also a lot of what-ifs to being uh a practice owner as

far as uh risk of staying in business without taking any chips off the table, right? >> Yeah. >> You could break a hand. You could have two back surgeries like me. You could You could You could one of your associates could could um have a death in the chair, you know, one of your associates could get, you know, um accused of of uh of sexual harassment. And you know, there's any number of things that you're vulnerable to that people don't even think about it until it

happens. >> So, regardless of each path, there's there's always risk. >> There's always [laughter] risk. There's risk in selling too early. There's risk in selling too late. There's risk in There's There's It's just a matter of >> So, what's I guess what's the answer? >> [laughter] >> It It It depends. It depends on your personal situation. >> on what I guess your own vision and goals. >> Yeah. >> And it's it it's just focus on that. What do you want out of it? >> Exactly. And

how tolerant are you of your current lifestyle and what it takes to run the practice. A lot of people recognize, you know, I was I was probably 10 years in where I'm like, I I don't want to do clinical dentistry anymore. I just don't have the passion for it anymore. Some people are in that boat. And some people are in the boat of I just don't want to deal with humans anymore and I don't want to run a team anymore cuz it's completely exhausting that you

can you can kind of uh relate >> it's all universal, dude. Like in my business, I'm not a dentist, but I'm a I'm a business owner just like a dentist, right? There was one point in time where I was in the chair selling and helping all my clients out, right? And then like, I don't want to do that anymore. I don't. Uh very similar to how a dentist would go and say, yeah, I'm I don't want to be in the chair anymore. Kind of similar to

what you've done. Um and then now it's like, okay, now I'm managing people. It's like, do I want to keep doing that? Right? It's the same thing. It's different I'm not selling I'm not fixing teeth, I'm fixing uh revenue funnels for practices. You know what I mean? It's like it's just it's the only thing that's different. >> It is true. That's true. Business [laughter] is business, man. I always say, my first business ever was a catering truck. I sold burritos and and french fries and diet

Cokes and Marlboro Lights. >> It's all the same though. It's like >> Man, it's the same. Same >> some type of service or offer that you're giving to somebody and you got to attract those people and you got to retain them and you got to take care of them. It's no no no matter what type of business you're in, that's that's that's it. It's all universal. It's like >> Totally. >> I have to do that in a software company. If I owned a a food truck

business, it's the same. I got to attract, I got to retain, I got to fulfill. >> Yeah. Manage people. >> And I got to manage people. It's >> That's the You have to know how to read financial reports, all of it. >> And financial report, all that stuff. So, Mark, you got you got your your big event coming up. >> Yeah. >> June What was the dates? I think I wrote June 12th through the 13th? 2026? >> Yep. Frisco, Texas at the PGA headquarters. Oh, nice.

Which is just a fantastic hotel. It's our second year there. We have one more year on our contract with them. Beautiful, beautiful part of the world. Gorgeous, I mean, the best golf courses in the world attached to that because it is PGA headquarters. >> I wish I was a good golfer, Mark. >> I wish [laughter] I was an average golfer. >> So, June 12th 13th in Frisco, Texas. Walk Walk our audience through what what's going to happen at that event. It's one of my favorite events

to go to, by the way. >> Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, this is our 14th, which is crazy. Not well, this is our 13th because COVID wiped out one year, but um >> And I was there when it was in in in a tent outside of a hotel. In San Diego, yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, like 200 people. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a it's a larger private event. It's not You're not going to get DS World 4,000 people, but you'll you'll definitely get

between, you know, 6 and 700 people and we have really good speakers. I'm I'm proud of that. We've had Peyton Manning in the past, we've had Jocko, we've had David Goggins, we've had Um we we've had uh Ryan Holiday who wrote who's my favorite author. This year I'm stoked cuz we have Gino Wickman and there's a lot of uh Traction/EOS fans out there. >> Yeah, I'm one of them. >> Yep. Yep. Gino Wickman um is completely anonymous to to the the entire world that doesn't own

a business, but most people that own a small business um know who Gino Wickman is cuz they've picked up Traction and they've implemented EOS or tried to implement EOS into their their practice/business. So, he's our keynote this year. Uh I'll have a fireside chat with him. He'll be signing books and taking selfies and stuff. Um and we have breakouts for everybody. So, we have breakouts for hygiene, um dental assistants/auxiliaries, doctor-only breakouts. So, um we have just we have the best speakers in the world. Um uh

Do you know that we have a belt system when it comes to to how we rank all of our all of our clients inside DSI? Um the best of the best inside our group are the black belts. Goes from white belt to black belt. White, blue white, blue, brown, and black. Um and a handful of those uh black belts uh became coaches for us. So, we have 22 coaches and a lot of them are going to be speaking about their own personal experience, etc. So, >>

What do they have to do to get a to be a a black belt? Just so everyone listening knows. >> That's That's great. Uh uh we do we do have a little quiz we're going to give there and you can find the quiz online, too, but um it's it's according to our assessment. So, we have a cultural assessment that you can take. Uh a leadership assessment a systemization assessment, and then of course overhead cash flow. So, there's certain thresh thresholds that um that we calculate and

we we rank you based on where you are in those particular categories. So, you can be a a white belt in in uh in systematization, but still be a black belt as far as profitability. >> Got you. Yes. >> is to get to be black belt level in all of those different >> All three? >> Yeah. All >> And you do it all through assessments, which is my favorite way to hire people, through assessments. >> yeah, totally, totally. >> No, this is awesome. So, >> Yeah.

>> Awesome event. I think some of my top customers, Mark, are are people that have gone to your events and if really figured out how to operate their practices, um which is which is a huge compliment, I think, on your part because every time I look at you know, where where our customers are coming from, literally, our top customers are people that have gone to your events and gone to and become uh and had some of your coaching, right? Which is really interesting to me. Um

and people that that focus on on improving and and having a coach. So, I think that's that's really really important for practice owners to understand. I would never run my company without the proper coaches, and those are people that have ran their ran uh a practice and is been there, done that, not just random uh coaches cuz there's there's those, too, out there. There's a lot of those, actually. >> Yeah, there are a lot of >> [laughter] >> those, as well, out there. Good day, man.

That that that means a lot. That means a lot. Um yeah, I look forward to maybe seeing you, maybe seeing some of your clients there. Um if you guys are interested in picking up tickets, I know Jordan has a special code and we can get you he can get you a really steeply discounted ticket uh because of our relationship, but uh reach out to Jordan. Um or just go to truedentalsuccess.com and uh hit the events tab and and pick up a pick up a ticket um

for you and the whole >> truedentalsuccess.com and go to events and you'll find it this year and go go to Texas, hang out with Mark and all the cool people in dentistry. >> [laughter] >> Awesome, Mark. I appreciate you coming on the show today and uh we'll make sure everyone hears uh this episode and and gets a formal invite from you through the podcast. So, thanks man. >> Thank you, brother. Appreciate you, man. I'll talk to you soon.