82: Imagineering Unheard of Digital Marketing with Naren Arulrajah

[music] Welcome to the Navigating Dental Insurance Podcast where we don't take from insurance [music] companies. Here are your hosts, Mr. Jordan Comtock and Mr. Ben Tui. Welcome to the Navigating Dental Insurance Podcast. My [music] name is Ben Tui. Today I'm your solo host. Jordan Commtock is out for today. In fact, at [music] this very very hour, Jordan's wife is being induced. So, we wish Jordan well and his wife, and we hope all things uh turn out well for the delivery of their new baby. Um, so

that's where Jordan is at. And folks, we we want to apologize for uh the podcast. We we've been so busy for the last several weeks, or in fact, the last couple of months, I've been on the road and traveling and Jordan has been been doing podcast solo. So have I. Um but now um coming on the summer months things should start to settle down and we have a bunch of awesome guests that have lined up. One of which today we got uh Naren Arul Raja on

the phone with us from Canada. How are you Narin? >> I'm fine, thank you. Uh Ben, I really appreciate uh the opportunity. I also spoke to Jordan. So I'm looking forward to an exciting time with you, Ben, today. >> We we look forward to chatting with Well, I look forward to chatting with you. We had to postpone this from last week and uh that was my fault. I couldn't get my audio and recording and stuff put together. You know, these podcasts are kind of like mini

radio shows and if you don't have your technology pieces put together, you can't record. So, that's what >> absolutely. >> Well, hey, uh before we get started with you, I just want to put a shout out there. Um we are doing uh Jordan and I both are speaking at a conference this fall. Uh it's October 4th and October 5th with Links to Success. This is a medical billing conference. uh a conference where doctors and st team members learn how to bill medical insurance. Um and what

I'm learning is as a dental insurance expert myself, I'm learning that many things are are being can be covered under the me medical billing side. Um is there's just a unique process for you to get things covered and it's not as easy as it sounds. You can't just take one course and learn tomorrow how to do it. Um, I've been learning for the last three years and I have a pretty good understanding of what's involved in the medical billing side of things. So, if you're interested

in the links to success conference, just email Jordan or myself. We'll send you an invitation to that meeting. He and I will both be speaking separately. It's a two-day conference August October 4th and 5th. That's a Thursday and Friday. So, we'd love to see you folks there if anybody's interested in attending that. So, now on to Naren. Now, Ren, you're currently in uh you're you're based out of uh Toronto, right? >> That is correct. I'm I'm in a suburb of Toronto called Missaga, Ontario. >> Yeah,

that's right. Uh is the airport in Missaga or is it uh I know that when we flew in, it's kind of close to it, right? Or >> Yeah, it is. It is. It's uh it is in Missaga. >> That's awesome. We have a lot of friends in Canada. In fact, we're doing a lot of business for some people in Canada right now, and they're all based out of Toronto. So, we're flying up there every other month just to button up some contracts and and stuff. And

I got to tell you, it's uh it's it's I I've been to foreign countries before and I never really realized that uh Canada would be too much different than the United States. I think the only difference for me is that harmonized sales tax. Do you charge that as to to US-based customers or >> No, we don't. I mean the good thing is um because of NAFTA you know we don't have to charge taxes to Americans and you know if uh vice versa if Americans are selling

things to Canadians they don't have to charge Canadian taxes. >> Oh gotcha. >> So so actually people get a break because they don't have to pay the taxes because it's you know like otherwise you have to pay sales taxes. >> Gotcha. That makes sense. Well otherwise I think I think uh Toronto is a beautiful city. My wife and I usually stay at the Double Tree downtown. And when you get down stairs, just to the ground level, there's like four different ramen shops. There's a um Korean

I mean within a half a mile, you have you have a variety of different restaurants to pick from. The last time we went, we uh we went to this ramen shop, and what attracted us is um in the window, we saw a guy spinning noodles. And you don't see this too often anywhere in the world. Actually, you don't see people, you don't see ramen shops making noodles from scratch. And it was the first time my wife and I actually had scratchmade noodles. We've never had them

before. Um, but we're hooked. We're we're headed back out to Toronto here in a couple months. And we're going to our first destination is to go to that ramen shop to [laughter] get some of those noodles. They're so good. I think I heard somewhere that u Toronto has one of the largest Chinese and you know Asian communities in in North America. You know, I don't know if it's number one or number two or number three, but it's up there. It's a pretty pretty uh lots and

lots of um you know, people from all over the world, you know, make their home here. So, you get all kinds of stuff here. It's a melting pot. It's it's just amazing how diverse it is. And the underground system there in the city is impressive. I think I think you have a few systems like that. There's I think there's a smaller one in uh Atlanta. Um but I've never been to an elaborate underground. It's basically a community under underground and it's amazing, >> right? Especially the

winter time, it's very very useful because u my kids for example go to school in the city of Toronto and uh you know they can just get around very easily. He's like, [laughter] >> "Yeah, >> cuz they know how to move around as you know, street cars and, you know, buses and, you know, underground trains and all kinds of stuff." >> Absolutely. That's awesome. Well, for those of you that that may know Nuren, he he appeared on um the Thriving Dentist podcast show and the Dental

Success Institute with Dr. Mark Cauus. Um I was just going to read some background about him. So Naren, he is a well-known uh medical marketing entrepreneur, an accomplished author, speaker, consultant, and the founder and CEO of Equa Marketing. Did I get that right? Equa Marketing right? >> Yes. ekwa.com. Equa marketing. >> Awesome. So he's also a host of a very popular podcast show and we'll post his uh podcast uh link in our uh show notes to this episode. So Naren also he he's established the EQUA

growth club as well as the ECQUA institute to help doctors in the US and worldwide to achieve their goals through digital innovation. Uh in recognition of his in industry innovation and leadership, Naren was conferred the 2014 leadership innovative award by the auto tech Ontario a pre-minent nonprofit promotional global technology entrepreneur uh for entrepreneurs. So that's an amazing uh leadership award that you got there back in 2014. So so Naren in terms of marketing there's one thing that you uh the quote that that we keep hearing

from you is uh you you say I consider myself an imagineer uh on a mission to deliver out out of the box digital marketing solutions for doctors which others are not even contemplating. So, so le let's talk about that for a minute. When it talks when it comes to uh digital marketing solutions for for the medical industry in the dental industry, when you say things that people are not contemplating, can you give us some examples of what you mean by that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think

um I mean there's a funny joke um there's a story that I heard a long time back. um this is in the '60s um couple of these guys who are you know advertising executives in those days I mean in those days we didn't have the internet or you know any of that stuff and they were sitting in the back of a cab and uh and the guy goes so what do you guys do um well we we we are in the advertising business and um all

the the cab drivers oh no advertising doesn't influence me it doesn't really has no effect over me and then the passenger says okay what tooth paste do you use oh I use Colgate why do you use Colgate I don't know but I just use Colgate right so you know marketing is about subconscious about the subconscious mind a lot of times great marketing is marketing you don't even realize is happening >> so um what I have been really excited my background is uh I have been a

computer science major in my university career and then I ended up running um particular products for large enterprise software companies and then getting fired four times in a row and then I ended up you know starting my business around 15 years ago and today we have 180 people. So what I love personally is, you know, kind of noticing um some of these um underlying principles that govern us as human beings and then figuring out how to apply those principles with the help of the technology we

have today. You know the the the Googles, the Facebooks, the you know the softwares, all of that stuff. So our clients you know have a leg up. I mean we generate half a million phone calls every single year for our clients. >> Wow. Um and uh these are all doctors. So you know um so it's fun though. It's just I love it because I'm like I love to try new things and see what works and what doesn't and when things work I we do more of

it. So I just love um you know waking up in the morning and uh you know doing interesting stuff. So the word imagineer is okay how do we take these principles that govern us as human beings and then figuring out how do we leverage that with technology to give our clients an advantage in the marketplace. >> Yeah. It's kind of a subtle form. Um the subtle marketing like I we we do a lot of that here. Um it's funny because when people ask me what my

budget is for marketing >> [clears throat] >> um each year I probably spend 0.001% of our total revenue in in marketing. In the beginning we spend a lot more. Um and a lot of it is what you what you mentioned. You know people don't know they're being marketed to. um in some way somehow we get we get referrals coming in from from systems and from things that we've put in place 10 years ago you know and the word kind of gets out whether it be through

social media study clubs that we've spoken at or various different organizations people receive a form of marketing it's funny I I put out this video called the seven steps on how to negotiate with insurance carriers and everybody started to promote it so this was back in 2012 to this day I still get calls off of that one video series. It's amazing. You know, I'm not a marketing expert at all. I just throw things out there and all of a sudden, you know, years later, we get

phone calls, but I imagine that yours is a lot more structured than that, right? In terms of uh digital marketing and things that, you know, uh more than just for the pay pay-per-click, right? >> Exactly. So, we have a total of 180 uh people who work for us. So, it's a pretty large team. We are broken into 40 different areas and some of those areas are products and products the way I look at it is it's self you know sustained it has a purpose it it

does something and it works and then um we have services team that then um you know do additional things for our clients on a custom basis and then we bring it all of it together for aqua clients where we do it all. So a typical Equa client will have access to 18 different products and services. Um if I were to give you an example, one of the principles of influence is authority. We tend to listen to people who we think are experts. Just in our human

nature, right? I mean a negative example is Hitler. You know, so many people helped him murder 65 million Jews. He didn't do it himself. He didn't take a gun and you know, blow up 65 million people, but there were hundreds of thousands of people. And if you then they've done all kinds of studies to show that if Hitler was in a different country perhaps the same thing may have happened because um you know because just the way he he did it it's just scary looking back

but it actually happened. Um now a positive example of that is you know Oprah would go on the Oprah show and say hey I love this book you all should read this book and all of a sudden 100,000 people go and buy that book and it's sold out. it climbs to the number one bestselling list of all time etc etc right um that's a positive example of authority and the reason is we have been taught not just you know in our lifetime but for you know

thousands of years to listen to authority figures you know if you trace back history you know we had leaders and kings and you know tribes and you know the chief of the tribe etc right >> so we have been taught to listen to authority figures it has been in our blood almost and uh even when a child is born you know I'm sure anybody who's a parent knows that a lot of times Your kids will listen more to your teach their teachers than to to you

as the parent you know because they see the teacher as an authority figure and that's in us. So how can we help our clients who are doctors be seen as authority figures? I mean there are shortcuts uh you know why do people write books because most people who buy your book are never going to read it but when they see that you are the author of the book they think you know what you're talking about. >> Yeah. >> It's it's it's scary but that's just the

way our mind works. The greatest business card out there is a book. >> Exactly. Um or like we have this mindset that anybody who's on TV must be important because otherwise they won't be on TV. It's just in our mindset. So um you know a lot of smart marketing people I'm sure hire a PR firm to get on all kinds of TV shows and then say hey I was on this show I was on that show. So whether the person watched the show or not the

by saying that I have been featured on these six places you are now positioning yourself as an authority. So we have a product for example called doctor's choice awards. Uh we built this because you know it was fun interesting and nobody else had it. So anytime we see an opportunity we go and do it. So the idea is we have all these review websites you know patients are reviewing you and your your competitors are using it to hurt you and your disgruntled employees are using it

to take revenge on you. I mean all this mess going on >> and the problem is as a doctor you cannot respond because of HIPPA. So even when it's a lie or untruth, you cannot do anything. You know, you really have to just take it. >> Um you cannot say, "Oh, I checked through my charts and this person what this person is saying is untrue." You cannot do it because then you're violating HIPPA. So it's like having doctor's, you know, box with both of their hands

tied behind their back. So we were thinking, you know, is there a different way to play this game? So we came up with this doctor's choice awards. And the idea is anytime you are really really uh you really need the best, you're not going to just listen to an average person on the street, you're going to listen to other doctors. So the concept is this platform doctor's choiceawwards.org. It's free. Anybody can use it. Allows you to have your colleagues who know you, who have, you know,

built relationship with you over the years. Could be people you went to school with. Could be people you refer patients or they refer patients to you. You know, all kinds of people you have met who happen to be doctors. They don't even have to be dentists. They can be other types of doctors. Um, so they would write a review for you. Now, think about it. That's an authority figure writing a review for you. If you go to a bookstore and flip through a book in the

personal development section and you look at the back cover, right? We always look at the back cover to see what others say of the book. Whose testimonials or reviews do you see? It's people in the industry, right? >> So, if it's in the personal development section, you're going to see a review from Tony Robbins. Hey, I know Tony Robbins. If Tony Robbins thinks this is a good book and he's an expert in personal development, it must be a good book. That's our mindset, right? Let's say

you're reading a book on politics, you then'll be a quote from a famous politician saying this is one of the best books you should read. You know what I mean? >> So now you're like, "Oh, this guy knows I mean if the president says this must be a good book, it must be a good book. He knows one or two things about you know about politics, right? That's our mindset. So the idea here is let's get reviews from doctors." So we have more than 4,000 doctors

who have reviews from you know hundreds or thousand you know some some some doctors have even like 50 hundred reviews from others. >> Wow. >> And then once you have those reviews then what do you do with it? You can create a beautiful graphic from it. So each review can turn into this beautiful graphic that can go on your social media page. You can have a page full of graphics where 50 people or 10 people or five people say you know you are God's gift to

mankind. you have been practicing you know dentistry for the last 17 years and you know you take continuing education and they have known you and you are one of the best doctors they know etc etc now that authority that's being built up can be leveraged in the age of social media in the age of you know internet marketing in so many ways >> so I'll tell you a story like I've had clients who tell me that by the time the patient walks in some people even

comment that I cannot believe that I'm getting to see you in person [laughter] you know because because of all this information that's out there that of course was placed you know by you know savvy marketing people I mean trust me Oprah is not born with a silver spoon she didn't jump out of the heaven you know she was created by her people and herself >> you know because if you trace back the history of Oprah she was you know in the beginning a nobody >> and

then she became the Oprah you know what I mean it's just all created >> over time over a 10 20 year period but I'm not saying you have to be an Oprah but I'm you can be seen as an expert, as an authority in your field. Um, so that's an example of, you know, um, one of the ways we innovate, one of the ways we come up with a solution that makes it easy for the doctors, but at the same time, it it leverages powerful influence

principles. >> When it comes to online reviews, there are the usual suspects. The person who yells at you through their keyboard. The guy who gives you one star because he got a parking ticket outside your office. Oh, and of course, the lady who wasn't 100% satisfied with the paint color on your walls. The world of online reviews isn't always fair. And chances are, if you're not actively [music] asking customers to review your business, you're probably going to get more bad than good. That's why there's Podium.

Podium has helped thousands of businesses use text messaging to collect hundreds of customer reviews on the sites that matter most. The best part is it's super easy. It takes 30 seconds or less for your customer to leave a review on their phone, which is proven to get you a lot more reviews. To see a [music] free demo and learn how Podium can help your business's online reputation, visit podium.com/mpodcast or [music] call 1833-2763486 today. Mention this ad for additional savings. That's awesome. You know, I years ago

I um when I used to work for DSO in Arizona, um we did all kinds of marketing and I was over the insurance department. That's my expertise is I I deal with dental insurance and health practices understand which PPOs to participate with, how to negotiate, how to get out of insurance carriers um as as well as how to leverage your practice from a marketing perspective in using the insurance participation panels in an effort to capture the greatest number of patients that you can. And over the

years it's evolved the the marketing concept has evolved to where you know being in network with PPOs definitely you're going to get PE you're going to get patients but that not might be the best strategy. You know the type of patient that comes in for some PO plans is not even worth accepting participation from some of those networks whether it be the fees may be too low or you have uh patients that have this entitlement mentality where they want everything for free you know or at

an an unsustainable discount level. So, so we put together this uh quote unquote name brand marketing approach and it speaks to exactly what you just mentioned and I never really realized the tie. I always thought, you know, people people don't know this doctor's name. Uh people don't know who this doctor is and frankly, you know, people probably don't care because they're getting thousands if not hundreds of hundreds and thousands of marketing pieces, whether it be through direct mail, media, um email, uh online media, they're getting

marketed to to them by hundreds of dentists, even dentists not in their community. Like I get on my Facebook page, I get doctors in DC, I live in Utah, and I get doctors in DC that appear on my feed. I'm like, you know, I don't I probably would never go to them. I I live 2,000 mi away. So, what we did is we put together this name brand marketing approach where we partnered with Costco and Target because those were wellrecoognized brands. You know, people didn't know

who Dr. Chris Smith was, >> but they did know who they did know who Costco was. They knew who Target was. And what we found is that when we partnered with these two institutions and had their logos appear on the website, on the marketing material, whether it be on Facebook or or direct mail, we had a a huge like the response was overwhelming. It was way different than when we just promoted Dr. Chris. Dr. Chris Smith does he's not a real doctor, so don't don't Well,

probably there probably is a Dr. Chris Smith, but [laughter] I'm just using it as an example. And I think that speaks to what you um you know the psychology behind the the human mind. You know, they're they're more willing to recognize a name brand or or somebody that's famous or somebody that that's put on a pedestal, whether it be you're leasing that trust from whoever you're using, you know, you're leasing the Costco trust, you're leasing the Target trust or you're leasing the Tony Robbins brand or

the name, you know what I mean? Uh in fact, um [clears throat] >> Tony Robbins dentist is a friend of ours, Dr. Craig spoke Spodak and he Dr. Spodak he's because Tony Robbins is so open about who his dentist is. Uh he leveraged that you know in a big way and his practice is booming you know it is uh it is a very busy practice in uh in in in Florida you know and it's this whole concept that you're talking about I never really made that

connection until you mentioned it um which I think is is fascinating and phenomenal. So, so for doc, so so you work with both um physicians and DDS, right? Or and DMD. >> Yeah. So, our clients are uh most of our clients 70% plus are dentists. Um we also have around 25 to 30% dermatology clients. We have uh maybe uh recent decent number of plastic surgeons uh you know other type of professionals in in in you know cash pay medicine if I may use that term. In

other words, people pay out of pocket for a service. >> Yeah. >> Um and and going back to your point about um you know um you know some of these PPOs, you don't want to even work with them because it just doesn't make any sense. Uh it's like do you want the tail to wag the dog or do you want to be the man of your own destiny or the woman of your own destiny, right? The problem with um not having your own um strategy to

attract the right clients who appreciate you, who are willing to pay for you is you have to keep going to the bottom of the barrel and it's not fun at the bottom of the barrel. You know, it's a lot of hard work, very tiny fish, and it's always the leftover. You know, a lot of times you end up with scraps, right? Um, so you know, one of the best uh quotes I've heard in sports, I used to be a I used to live in Chicago and

uh I was there when Michael Jordan came back and won three championships. Um, I remember a quote, I don't know if it was from Philip Jackson at the time or somebody, he said, "The best defense is the best offense." >> Yeah. >> You know, and and um if you're playing offense all the time, and if you're the one who's, you know, who's out there and really, you know, innovating and playing offense, you don't have to worry about survival. you can worry about, you know, um creating

the future you want for you, your team, your patients. Like I have quite a few clients, you know, there's one guy, I'm not going to mention names, he works 24 hours a week and um and he makes $1.7 million. You know, his uh his um overhead is 50%. You know, he's a very successful dentist. Of course, it's not overnight success story in 2 years. It took time and we have been working with him for more than 5 years. even before us he was very you know

he he was kind of in tune to marketing he understood marketing he understood the human mind and how it works >> right >> um and authority is one of the key influence principles um another one that I think is probably the number one influence principle of 2018 is called um social proof um we tend to do what we see others doing um for example you're in an elevator and uh you know three people are facing the back you are the only guy facing the front. Even

though you know almost every time people face the front, you will almost be feel compelled to turn around because you want to fit in. Just a human nature and it's just the way we are. We like to fit in. Um and yeah, one out of a thousand may decide to stand the opposite way, but most of us 90 95% we will do what we see others doing. This is why [clears throat] you know the entire world has changed on its head. Like brands don't mean anything

anymore. Like I mean there used to be a time when you know you would see companies spend billions of dollars and they dominated. I'm sure you're the pre proctor and gamble right tide and all that stuff. >> Now Amazon can sell a no-name you know battery or noame uh detergent and there as long as there are hundreds of people saying it's a good detergent or a good battery. People don't care. >> Yeah. >> You know because they trust those reviews 10 times more than this thing

called tide or thing called brand. >> Yeah. like the Dollar Shave Club. >> Exactly. I mean, it just came from nowhere and was sold for a billion bucks, right? >> You know, um, absolutely. And, um, you're absolutely right. I mean, and I mean, Amazon is run by social proof. It's one of the largest companies on the planet right now. Uh, Uber, Airbnb, they are 100% social proof. They don't even have a product for go, you know, the they they don't have hotels, they don't have cabs.

It's just social proof. That's it. And um so social proof I think is amazingly powerful because we believe others if other people think something is good we think something is good. So we innovated quite a bit on the space. So we have this product called growmyreviews.com. So growmyreviews.com is a product uh where any of your listeners if they're interested they let us know we'll give them a trial so they can try it out at no cost. grow my reviews.com. Uh, the way it works is it

helps you get reviews from your happy clients. Uh, and it uses Dr. Robert Chelini. He wrote a book on influence to make that happen. So, when somebody is giving you a compliment, they're saying, "Hey, thanks a lot for taking care of my gums. They're not bleeding anymore." You say something like, "This means a ton to me. I really appreciate it. Do you mind if I send you a quick text? Can you kind of write a quick review for me? It works like a charm." And the

software allows you to send a quick text. It links to the profiles you care about. So, Facebook or Google or Yelp, whatever you pick and uh just from their own mobile device, remember they already logged into Facebook and Google and so forth on their mobile mobile phones, they write a beautiful review for you in that moment. >> Yeah. >> So, Chelini talks about, you know, leveraging the moment. He says when people are feeling grateful, that's called reciprocity. If at that moment you get them to do

something, they're three times more likely to do it. But what typically happens is or the system sends an email at the end of the day or you know random email and all that stuff and first of all people don't check emails. Second of all when that email or text comes 4 hours later they're not thinking about you. They're not feeling grateful to you. They're thinking about the soccer practice they're running late for or they're thinking about 20 other things that's on their mind. So you who

were a hero to them when they were talking to you 3 hours ago now is at the bottom of the list. >> Yeah. >> You know what? If you're on the bottom of a to-do list, you never go up to the top. So, right. >> So, doctors get frustrated. They're asking 100 people, they get one review or you know, all the reviews on one place. You know, it's not on the websites like Google and Facebook because those are the authority websites. So, a review on an

authority website is a lot more powerful than a review on any website. >> Um because you know these authority names, people know, hey, everybody knows Google, everybody knows Facebook. So, the idea is that you can't fool Facebook and Google. So, if a review on Facebook is worth five times a review on some no-name website, >> right? Yeah. And I like that. I like that. Uh, you know, getting the patient involved when kind of like that whole that the painful analogy of strike when the iron is

hot. Uh, I don't know why people use that. It's probably because people most people have never been branded, right? You know, like as as a kid, I was actually branded by by the tribe that we live with. And it it's a painful painful process to strike while the iron is hot. >> But that's the whole concept, right? Is is if what you know the out of sight, out of mind theory, you know, when it's at the forefront of the patient's mind, that's when you want to

ask for that review. You know, it's funny because we have a ton of clients that use various different uh companies for online reviews and um you know, some of them work great, some of them don't. Uh the one that you mentioned, the growmyreviews.com, I'm checking that one out. And I think you guys have it on on the right side of things. You know, you guys have it spot on where the the doctors that ask for the re reviews right then and there. Of course you you

know we hear that you don't want to have the reviews done in the practice because you know Google will track the IP. Is that true? Google tracking. >> That is absolutely true. That's why we do not give them an iPad. We just literally send a text to their mobile. >> Gotcha. >> Because when they're writing from their own mobile, Google knows that they're coming from this particular device Blackberry and they Google knows that that's their device because it sees them coming from that device all the

time, right? And uh and of course everybody has, you know, internet these days. So they're just using their own internet, you know, through whoever the, you know, provider is, AT&T or Verizon. >> Yeah. >> And uh Absolutely true. So don't give them an iPad and say, "Hey, write a review for me." You'll get blacklisted, >> you know, and it's challenging, too, because there's so many companies out there that say, "You got to build those reviews." And they do this and that. And you know, we have

one client that got 300 reviews in one year and another client that used the same service that got 20, you know, and um what we've noticed is that um the the the practice that had well the practice was interactive, the one that got 300 reviews um I think to to date they get over 50 patients just from online searches a month, >> right? you know, and and that and combine that with what they're doing on the marketing side, you know, their own personal outreach through other

different uh marketing techniques that they use. What we see as PO experts is that as they increase their their patient flow and increase their own means of marketing, they're not fully dependent on the patients finding them on the PO directories. We we naturally see these clients go more and more and more out of network with insurance carriers. you know, kind of what you said in terms of controlling your own destiny and not letting the tail wag the dog. And I think that's the reason why we

have you on today is because, you know, we we can't stress enough of the importance of finding innovative ways to imagineer like pulling the words out of your mouth there on your quote, you know, imagineering using a partner like you to imagineer a marketing concept that replaces the need of PO participation. You know, I I get it that many offices they do PO participation because it's difficult to go out of network with many plans, but the the reality is is that when you have a significant

number of new patients coming in, you have you have a lot more patients to learn the out of network game with insurance carriers. So, so I like what you're sharing with uh with us today. So, in in terms of if if a doctor is interested in learning more from you, of course, they can check out the other podcast. Gary's podcast is almost a full hour long. And same thing with Dr. Mark Cauus, both of which we are um you know, we love those guys to death

and we listen to their podcast every day. But if somebody wants to learn directly from you um outside of the two websites that you shared with us, uh the uh ecqua.com, >> did I pronounce it right? Equa or equa? >> Ekwa.com. >> Okay. >> Um then of course um um growing dentist.com. That's the my podcast. So maybe people can check out I have like done 80 to 100 uh you know podcast with all kinds of people of course uh with your buddy Jordan as well. Um

so I know you were not there that day but I did a podcast with Jordan. >> Uh so he's sharing his wisdom on you know um what to do and what not to do and all kinds of interesting topics we talked about. Um so those are the two main websites and uh doctor's choiceawwards.org it's free. Check it out. If you are interested in growing your reviews um you know you can email me narin which is n a r nen that's nancy apple reagan edward nancy atequa.com

and may just mention you heard me on this podcast with Ben and uh we would send you a twomonth uh you know account to try out um growmyreviews.com um also we have lots of other products um if you are interested just go to the URL growthclub.equa.com ecqua.com. So, growth club, one word. Um, so we have around nine other products. Um, you know, doctor and me TV where we create videos um featuring the doctor and then we use those videos in advertising on Facebook and so forth.

Um, we have socialproof.co, which is not only getting the reviews, but are you using the reviews at the right moment to make people want to say yes to you? A lot of people will have 300 reviews, but they're not using it at the right moment when people are thinking of you. Uh we have something called offourpatients.com. It's an artificially intelligent chatbot that sits on your computer and talks to your patient and creates leads for you. That's one of the best products we have ever come up

with. People love it. Again, if you are interested, let us know. We'll let you try it for free. Uh just again, email narinqua.com. So, we have tons of stuff. Just go to growthclub.qua.com. We do take only a limited number of clients for our VIP service where they get everything. The reason is uh we have to put a lot of hours so minimum 30 hours of marketing every month for these VIP clients. So um we are limited by you know how many how many um clients we

can take in any given month new clients and um 90% of our clients never leave us. So it is an interesting business model. So, we focus on making the phone ring, you know, making those 500,000 phone calls go to 600,000 and uh we have an amazing relationship with our clients. They become our friends. They become our partners. So, just check out echo.com. Any questions, reach out to us. We would love to help you. Um, you know, and we would even, you know, do a review of

your marketing and give you some tips if you're interested. So, reach out to us. >> Well, I've been very impressed. I think your approach is very very comprehensive from a marketing perspective and it it hits all the new innovative things, the imagineering aspect of what you talk about in terms of marketing. Um, you got me convinced. I'm looking at all these websites that you put on and all the reviews that you got for yourself and all the people that uh that that are that are rating

you and reviewing you. You know, these are some very well-known professionals in the industry. So, what we'll do is we will post all of the contacts uh Naren's uh email as well as all the websites that he he he mentioned here on our podcast. Check out the show notes or just expand those show notes on your iTunes or any other uh media listening device that you have um to see all the different websites and Naren's contact information. Uh Nen, any closing thoughts for our listeners? >>

Yeah, I think um I don't know. I I I've always felt you have a choice with with life. Either you take control and you lead your life or the life leads you and you're just living day by day just hating every morning. I I I personally work with doctors who control their lives, who lead their lives, who say here is where I want to end up and then they go and make it happen. And um having worked with so many doctors like that um you know

who they don't like to work hard, they like to work smart. Uh, of course, um, you know, I would suggest you do the same thing again like you don't have to worry about step number 29 or you know, mile number 29. You just worry about the next 100 yards. >> Just the next step to be honest. It's like driving at night. Just take one step. You know, step one I would say is try to understand what marketing is. You know, it's it's really simple. It's about

helping people know you and then helping them choose you. to help them choose you, you have to leverage these principles like authority, social proof. And once you understand the basics, then figure out who can implement it for you. I personally think you need a single person or a company because this way they're not going to blame each other and we go round and round in circles. They're going to be accountable. Um and um so those are my final thoughts. And um one last tip I would

leave you with, I I love success. So, I've been studying all my clients and I'm noticing three attributes of our most successful clients. Number one, they have a growth mindset. They always look at a glass that's half full and they'll say, "Hey, who do I thank for the full half and then how do can I work with them to make the rest of the glass full as opposed to the ones with the scarcity mindset? They also same see the same glass, but they they are saying

who do I blame for the half empty piece and who do I beat up?" >> And you don't want to work with people like that. It's just not worth your life. just life is short work with people with growth mindsets and I all my clients or many of my clients who do stay with us the 90% I talked about they have that mindset uh if they don't usually we don't work with them uh second is um they are team players what I mean is they believe

in teamwork so they don't think they know everything they realize we all have to be good at something and then we have to partner with others who are really really good at the pieces we are not good at so they they work in a very respect respectful way. It's almost like two people sitting on a table on the same side of the table talking to each other, listening to each other, learning from each other and growing together. So I I never try to tell, you know,

my dentist how to do my dentistry, you know, because I I took the time to pick him because I know what he's doing. Uh but the same way, you know, work with your other partners, you know, have a good team like somebody like Jason in your corner, somebody like Ben in your corner, somebody, you know, perhaps who's a great accountant in your corner. So take your time to pick the right people to partner with and then cultivate this awesome you know team approach based relationship based

on mutual trust and respect. Um and the last and the most important mindset I see with the most successful people is they appreciate they say thank you. Like in our business we have 180 people. So at at different parts of the life of our VIP clients, they might be in touch with one of 18 different teams. So just a tiny thank you motivates people like nothing you can imagine. >> It sounds so simple and stupid, but it is the magical words, you know, in the language,

you know, it just like just say thank you, you know, just say I appreciate you. it can go miles, you know, like beating people up and telling them why they suck doesn't make them try harder for you. >> Um, like I was at a coffee shop the other day and this this woman was, you know, serving coffee and this guy go, you know, was snapping at her. I mean, this poor woman, you know, she's, you know, anyways, I don't want to get into it, but I

mean, let's try to make life better for all of us and let's try to look for the good in each other. And I think that is one of the most successful attributes of people I I see who are happy and who are successful and who have amazing people working really hard for them. >> Yeah, I I love that. I think I think the positive mindset, the mindset of abundance, all those things that you mentioned that make for a great client. I often ask myself, how can

I be a better vendor? Um or how how how can I be a better um uh subscriber? you know, because we all use different vendors and different services is, you know, we always want to keep our agame on and and and wow the client. But one trick that I've learned about influencing those that are serving us, you know, is that you will get the very very best service from those serving you. When you follow the three things that you mentioned, growth, mindset, team player, you appreciate,

you say thank you. The kindness aspect of things goes a long way, you know, in terms of building a business and getting other vendors to be really extremely loyal to you. We have we have vendors that work for us that are extremely loyal that do above and beyond what we pay them for. And that's simply because they always comment that, you know, we what the way we treat them is is is above and beyond what how others treat them. And I think that's how you influence

people to really really uh commit to you and and be loyal to you is that last part that you mentioned is the appreciation, the say thank you, you know, it just it just it's magic in a way. It just motivates people. >> It's magic. Exactly. And a lot of times they're doing 99 things right for you. So when you at least say thank you for some of those 99 things and yes, share the feedback because when you have that kind of an amazing trustbased relationship, when

you tell them something, they're going to listen to you very intently. Yeah. >> As opposed, oh, here he goes again. You know, the only time I hear from him is, you know, when he complains. >> Exactly. And and for me, it doesn't matter. But, you know, in my business, it's people driven. So, I I've tried this. I've tried every other approach. You know, trust me, I I I'm an engineer. I try things. Beating people up doesn't work. You know, >> inspiring people works. You know, believing

in people works. Appreciating people works. >> Yeah. And it's hard though because I think most of us have type A personalities and we want everything to be perfect and we only see what's wrong and we don't see what's right. But it's something that we all have to develop and you know and and sometimes it's good for your own health too because if you're only looking for what's wrong, you will never be happy. >> Yeah. >> Your wife will leave you, your husband [laughter] will leave you

>> cuz nothing is good enough. >> Yeah. And you have high blood pressure all the time too. >> Exactly. So this actually, you know, having been, you know, and still kind of like I think call me like a recovering alcoholic or recovering, [laughter] >> you know, so I'm not perfect, but but it's so valuable, you know, just it makes your life better and the life of those around you better and and we all going to die one day. So why not try to be a positive

force in each other's lives. >> Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have a I have a personal experience with you, you know, being positive and kind with us last week, me not getting the recording devices to work. And, you know, as as much as I just get so uh irritated that people sometimes waste my time, and I don't verbally say, "I'm so mad at you for wasting my time, you know, the kindness and generosity that we share with one another and and what you've shared with me during

that whole hiccup last week." It just goes to show who you are. And if I were to make a decision b on the spot today to do business with you based upon upon what I know about you, I would do business with you honestly because you're just a fantastic person, [music] you know, and and just your attitude about things even off the air have just been phenomenal. I think you really walk what you teach and uh and and I want to encourage our listeners to reach

out to you. You know, there's a lot of great um uh podcasters that are out there, but what you say, honestly, what you have shared on this podcast, what I've listened on on Gary Takis' show and Mark Cauus' show, there's a lot of new things I've never heard of. And so, when it when you say you're an Imagineer, I believe you. [laughter] I think you're definitely an imagineer the way that you uh you represent yourself. So, thank you for being who you are. Thank you for

spending so much time with us on our podcast today and sharing all these wonderful gems with our listeners. We're going to post all the information on the show notes about you and hopefully that people reach out to you and uh get a hold of you. So for those of you that are listening today, reach out to Naran. He is a he is just a gold mine of information, a pearl on many levels. So Naran again, thank you so much for being on today. Thank you very

much, Ben. I really appreciate it. And um say hi to your friend who's uh expecting his child. So, >> absolutely, you're going to you're going to pray for him and uh I do appreciate your generous comments. I really appreciate it. It means a lot to me. >> Thank you. And then we'll we'll update everybody about Jordan's wife's status during our next podcast next week. But in the meantime, everybody, have a great day. Have a safe drive back home or a safe drive to work. And we

wish all of you the best of success. [music] >> [music] [music]