Unlocking Dental Profitability: Mastering Costs, Membership Plans, and Insurance Strategies

what's up everybody and welcome to another exciting episode of the automatic patient podcast I am your co-host today with me Dr Dan Nelson what's up dog how you doing I'm good man I'm excited this is uh we're gonna get into some cool stuff today I'm Punk yes we're gonna be talking uh a lot of finances uh within the practice cost per procedure years ago I did this for the dental lab when I managed my dad's dental lab and uh years ago when I got curious about

all this business side of Dentistry I asked my dad said hey how much money do we make uh per crown and he's like I don't know maybe like 50 bucks and I scratched my head I was confused and he's like I'm like did you just say I don't know maybe like when it talk when you're talking about like cost per procedure he's like yeah I really don't know so like it took me maybe a few weeks to get all of our procedures down or our services

put together and the costs and everything and we did a financial analysis and and found that we were losing on some crowns with certain clients and I'm like holy smokes it was eye opening for my dad and it sounds like you guys did something similar to your practice so let's hear the story let's hear what you guys did what you guys found it was horrifying actually it was uh it was one of the more depressing points of my week so um I was in between patients

and I was we have a kitchen in our office and I was just kind of sitting there and Ryan walks up to me and he's like hey he's like uh you want to see something completely awesome but super depressing I'm like nope I don't actually I'm I'm already stress eating and he's like okay well you should check this out because it's awesome but also super sad and depressing and okay so so he shows me this report he he did this last week um and basically what

it is is it's so one of the things that we offer our members is updated um yearly pricing for zip code pricing right so we just got our 2025 pricing and he decided to run some well so he decided to run overhead which we've been we've done overhead for ages like this is something that you have to any business manager or office manager or consultant or whoever worth their salt should be running an overhead report right and yeah you know and I'm not talking about p&l

p&l gives you like a nice snapshot but I'm talking a actual overhead report of like okay what are the actual costs of doing business in my practice but and then you know we also do these reports on you know price per procedure but he decided to get Ultra granular with this and he says okay we're going to run it down to the you know I'm going to include the cost of keeping the lights on you know and taking the garbage out and stuff like that so

he took and got super granular with our overhead and um broke it down on a Cod proceed fure code level and so what we have now is we have this and I keep looking to my left because I'm looking at the report and so what we have is we have try not to throw up yeah yeah seriously though like yeah we'll get into why it's like it's it is so depressing um but what what I have is I have the 50 most common codes that that

we do um in our practice and then it's broken down by uh the 2025 pricing so what we encourage all of our members and and what anyone listening to the show is that you should be in the 80th to 90th percentile of pricing for your zip code and there's a lot of reasons for that that it's we're not going to get into today um but there's definitely um it it would behoove you to do that you know never mind the effect it has on the industry

and insurance and you know when they audit and all that other stuff um it's going to be benefit you to be in that 80th to 90th percentile of your ZIP code pricing that's assuming you have your ZIP code pricing you know what you should be um there's we've gone into offices Jordan that we've run the report and we look it up and they're in like the 20th percentile of their yeah when the last time they they had a price increase was like 1980 yeah basically like

like Dad ran the office and we haven't adjusted fees since Dad ran it 10 years ago I'm not kidding like this is like that's too bad yeah and you encourage people to do it and they're so scared to do it and they're like no because why is that I I mean I've been on all sides of Dentistry for a long time now and even even even my dad I remember at the dental lab he was so hesitant to increase his his pricing and I saw the

same thing today when we talked to practices here at boomcloud we'll look at when we were setting up their membership program you know often a topic of UCR fees comes up and they're like oh yeah we haven't raised our prices for years right and it it makes me scratch my head every time I hear one of our team members bring that up because I'm like man do these guys do practices not look at like they pricing and understand how important it is to maintain that over

year yeah I mean I think I think in talking with people you know our our members and just friends that you know uh Dent doc friends uh the hesitance usually is fear-based you know it's it's not patients will leave me all thatp we don't want to we don't want to offend them the funny thing is Dan the the patient doesn't know what your fees are they don't so if you increase it I don't know if you recommend increasing every year um but the patients don't memorize

your UCR Fe so they're like they're not goingon to know they they just don't know and that's not it's it's it's it's uh when you make decisions off of fear they're usually not they're the greatest yeah and the reality of it is is usually when you do a percentile fee increase the amounts are not big you know what I mean like it adds up and ends up being big for you the practice but for the individual it's not like we're not we're talking a cup of

coffee or something like that you know they over the cost of a cup of coffee sure because you have Stu hundreds to thousands of patients paying a small increase that adds up over time so yeah so get out of your head docs about fear-based price Ing and and it's okay to increase your price it's actually really healthy and you need to so all right let's get into the details here of what yeah so so so what we've got is so we have this 2025 90th percenti

pricing for our ZIP code at Wood River dentl right so here in Sun Valley this is what we have um honestly it's a little depressing sometimes to see what Idaho pricing is in of s like because we run it against other states and you know it's like wow this is anyway that's a personal problem um and then what we do is we have uh Ryan has given us a comparison against Delta what our contracted Delta reimbursement rate is okay okay so um and then the difference

and so I'll just give you guys a quick I'm going to do three or four examples from our stuff um sure but this is a an 0120 so this is periodic or or Leal so this is an incredibly common Co code you know our our diagnostic code so a combination of limited oral comprehensive and periodic we did uh we did over 10,000 this year and the year's not over yet so in our office we do a lot right and so the difference is 49% between what

our pricing is and what Delta reimburse is at so once you plug that into our formul that Ryan is created now into our true overhead formula which again I get it includes stock pay so Dr Hill and I are getting paid on this so it's just the profitability for the practice not doc profitability don't get that confused this is just the business aspect our profit with Delta patients is $3 three bucks three bucks per per proced per per 0120 you've done 10,000 plus um and you

got your three bucks it's $3 three bucks we're breaking it in on these Delta every couple patients you can go get a McDonald's burger yeah you can't though actually because it's a $5 meal deal you need actually two bucks you gotta do two of them yeah you gotta do two of them to get your McDonald's you got to get lunch yeah yeah otherwise you're just doing Ramen that day yeah so yeah $3 profit that's yeah that's crazy for that especially that magnitude of of of uh

patients you're serving the 10,000 plus um procedures that you did there holy smokes it's crazy so and then let's go into and and keep in mind that of that 10,000 not all of them are Delta so but oh good point good point but the the and same with any of these other you know metrics I'm gonna give it's a cohort of a cohort most likely yeah yeah so but what we can see into is what the the profitability of the Delta versus the non- Delta patient

is to give an idea um you know your your profitability on that code uh should be based on what you charge and you know where you should be in that 50 percentile profit I gonna say yeah for what like the is it 0120 that the code what's the what's the typical uh price for that before like not profit but just your your price the patient deals with that's a good question I don't have the national average pricing in front of me I only have our ZIP

code in front of me I'd have to pull that report but um you know for so I I can give the example of what our area is it's $78 for our area okay so you divide the you take three divided by 78 and you can you can find that profit margin there was at a 3.8% profit margin yeah that procedure yeah you just recommended that we need to be around uh 50 perish imagine it depending to be healthy yeah you need to you need to have

some type of profit so you can continue doing business and yeah and don't get confused with and it gets a little convoluted and I don't want to get too deep into this because sure we can SP Lot hours yeah the percentages of the profitability per procedure versus total you know the profit for per pra the practice profit way different certain procedures are going to be higher percentile procedures than others some are loss leaders you know so you have to check you look into that there's certain

procedures that you'll have in your office that are simply loss leaders and that's okay as long as you have you make it up on the other end which is the whole point of a loss leader uh is to to drive you know U consumerism towards something that is profitable so in this particular world it's very depressing that with our insurance patients we are only making $3 on on that code I I can make it way sadder so let's let's uh let's go let's go down baby

get your Kleenex out because we're gonna make it worse and and and and again Jordan I mean I I I keep saying this but keep in mind that our office is highly highly optimized and so this is something that we are absolutely Shackled by these contracted fees yeah and you know there it's a frustrating thing that and you know I said it earlier I'll say it again please look into those CE you know there is CE stuff out there that does teach how to what's the

word I want to use um crack the insurance code yeah um and be able to to get more reimbursement than just what they their fees that they reimburse they will never pay you more the insurance company will never pay you more but there are ways that you can uh utilize the loopholes within the insurance contracts to charge more and get more for each procedure but I it's not my specialty that's a very that's a a super specialized um uh CE course that that I think there's

a few of them that are out there I know there's one in Utah specifically but if someone wants to dig into that they can they can message me I can give them more information yeah there's there's a lot of people in Utah that do that type of work usually usually involves an attorney you know somewhere a lawyer yeah but um but I'm going to just show a a resin uh two surface posterior okay so this is a this is a d2392 and okay R so the

the difference between Delta and our 2025 uh R fee is 49% so another 49 52% I gave wr% 52% all right so we lose $39 on every single posterior two surface filling that we do the business loses so posterior okay yeah but it's about the same some are worse I it's it's if you go to the front of the mouth it's worse we have a $90 loss on one of them so so $39 loss and then what's the and I know this is your your total

practice number how many feel how many posterior feelings you did you guys do so our our total you know looking at at this report our between Jared and I just on Direct Restorations I would have to pull a more granular report than I have just on my hip here but you know if you take uh just all the fillings that we've done this this last year it's around 1,500 so um you know and you figure that summer $90 loss summer the lowest the lowest loss we

have uh on this is actually the $39 one believe it or not no yeah so so with and this is with Delta this is not this is with Delta yeah obviously we're profitable on on our other po yeah yeah so so but I mean that was really depressing when we looked at that and go holy crow like this is something that is damaging to business and and again if it's happening to us I guarantee it's happening to other offices well you guys run a tight ship

over there I would imagine practices that haven't looked at like your comment of of other practices that haven't increased their fees in years they probably it's probably way worse and you guys up with it which is insane to me um the fact that you guys keep me up with it it's like whoa holy smokes exactly and again we utilize techniques and and things to mitigate that loss sure but some officers just take it just take it right to the teeth they don't have any systems in

place there's nothing that they're doing to mitigate it they just take it right to the mouth like just gez no pun intended or maybe it was who knows maybe it was yeah maybe it was a a pun that was intended it was very punny it was very yeah but I mean so I mean this is this is something again if they don't know if if you don't know in your office what you're actually your cost per procedure based on what insurance you're taking what your profit

or loss is on that or your margins are and let's say let your product your your margins per procedure it would be the exactly obviously collectively it scales up and then you get your profit margin as a company but exactly it is good to look at it Prof a profit per procedure so you understand the nuances of of all the your procedures and how it adds up here here's a question for you like how do you guys manage this are you is there a software that

you're using to look at all your procedures or are you just doing it through Excel uh well we again you know I don't mean to brag but we have a magician and you know having a Magan it's nice to have somebody who who can do like CFO functions yeah yeah yeah it's it's really really nice to have a magician in your back pocket um you know as your partner uh I I have two magicians and so you know I'm like the Lackey I'm just the whatever

I'm just this guy that's there so I'm the face that's what it is you're the pretty face yeah yeah yeah that's funny so Ryan you know Ryan this is what he does all day every day and he's looking at numbers he just knows how to generate these things and know he's done so much of it for so long again you know his background was in retail and Retail that's they this is what they do you know and so they look at everything with a fine tooth

comb yep every item that they have on a shelf they need to understand and the pricing on that changes daily you know he said I had to do this daily because the the market in in retails volatile and so and you know we don't do anything close to if you think about it though it's the similarities are shocking between you know an item whether it's an item on a shelf or an item that you you know that you uh is just a service that you offer

it's still an itemized uh you know um line of a line item that you can look at and dissect and say is that profitable is it not profitable you know but you have to know what your overhead is you have to know what your cost businesses and if you don't you could just be you know this is what happens a lot Jordan is is we see and I'm sure youve you've watched this yourself is as long as there's money coming into the account and as long

as there's balance management yeah yeah as long as there's no sting ignorance is bliss and and there's so many times where it's like you know what money's coming in I don't really know where it's coming from I just know it's coming in and my bills are getting met and I'm you know uh I like my salary therefore status quo is okay you know um I guarantee you who doesn't do that is Corporate or dsos or anybody most of the time they have a finance person within

like if it's a multilocation DSO they have Finance people that are looking at this just like what Ryan is doing for you guys you know which I think it's a it's a big issue in the industry with with single locations even in into the merging multilocation practice like dentist owned multiloc uh there's a huge lack of financial awareness in what you just discovered uh within your guys's practice uh from what I've seen which is which is which sucks because you can really optimize your practice when

you know this data and yes it may be depressing or look like a big issue but issues can be solved so let's talk about that how how do you guys how are you thinking about solving this in some of these procedures uh within your practice this next year yeah so again this is this is there's a couple ways to go about it you know and and uh as I referred to earlier there are programs that are available if someone wants to you know uh go down

that Avenue um they're not they're not horribly expensive but they're not cheap either to go and do these you know on-site or off-site CE um type um training that they give you the verbiage they give you the um uh how to you know and you when you take one of these things you sign a non-disclosure so it's not something that we can just be chatting about really near here but but the bottom line is is that they show you how to unlock the loopholes within the

insurance industry there are loopholes that are there there's a in your contracts when you sign on as a you know as a provider with an insurance company there's specific verbiage that you they are very very very good and very careful about what verb goes into that contract most of us are too ignorant to really know what that's what they do every day is look what they do every day all insurance companies do they look at Pap they sell paper and that paper has legal legal binding

aspects to it that's all they sell right so if you think about that that is their product and they're looking at that every day with a fine tooth comb right legal language and all that fun stuff so it can get pretty wild if you're not it it can yeah but that that's why these these these CE courses are so good is that and why you sign a non-disclosure is that because what they teach you is is impactful it is can you share the the the company

that that does this type of uh CE um we'll put it in the link I can we can um but um again I I need I have to I have to tiptoe around there's a lot stuff um the the the uh the other thing that can be done and of course this is right up your alley um is that we really believe in a patient benefit plan or a patient membership program or whatever you want to call it yeah where now you have a passive income

coming in um and that helps to mitigate a lot of what you get beat up on on the and control over your pricing yeah because you could you could charge your be in the 80 to 90th percentile and still charge not have to worry about I mean you'll have most practices will do some type of discount to the membership patients but at least you control it and if you realize that there's certain procedures that you're losing money on you be like well let's take these procedures

out of the membership plan or give a different discount to those we have practice that do that all the time like well we don't want to put our implants into the 20% discount we want to create another discount for implants or whatever it may be right depending yeah it's a whether it's a pero program or whether it's like whatever it is yeah and and you can can definit but you need to know again you have to get granular and be able to look at it and

say okay where where can we mitigate costs with our patient benefit plan or with our patient membership program uh what where do we do that where do we dissect it um and and that becomes a very easy way to a continue to get a passive Revenue stream coming into your practice that mitigates a lot of the hit that we take in our Monday morning meeting we actually show um we go through the the metrics that we have is um we break down our writeoffs from insurance

write off and then like perono work that we do like charitable work that we do sure um and then you know any other we have kind of a miscellaneous write off because there's some stuff that gets you know stuck in some funny kind of funny spots um and then we build back in the revenue from our patient benefit plan to show how it mitigates those ride offs and so it it shows and then it gives us an actual total right off amount sometimes it's negative you

know sometimes it's positive depending on on you know the week and and we were on when membership payments hit and all that other stuff but um it's nice to be able to see oh okay we are mitigating a lot of this loss so you know and really I think the other thing is is that if someone is absolutely convinced that they cannot get rid of insurance that they are like there's no way I'm doing it it's scares me to death I think I'll lose all my

patient whatever especially like Delta trying to get rid of Delta that's the biggest that's the scariest one for most practic yeah totally that yeah and depending on where you live there's some other huge ones you know and it's like sure but to get rid of those some people like I'm I'm just not going to do it then you have to be able to break down and look at like okay based on what insurance companies you're taking how much of your business does that insurance company make

up and then you have to say is a loss leader on a lot of stuff and so you have to look at it and say okay where am I making up that money because let's say patient a just comes in for they're really they have good hygiene they do everything right they come in and they they uh you know don't cost you a lot let's just say but they don't bring you a lot either so you have to look at that and say okay Break Even

yeah what am I what is coming from that type of patient versus the patient that is maxed out every year just is you know their kids don't brush and they you know they bring their kids in first of all so they bring their five kids in so that's adding to it you know there's a lot of components here and this is why we say you got to get granular on this and say okay well you know is that a good loss leader is that is that

Mom sounds sounds like discovering your ideal patient profile is exactly right yeah we're back there again we're talking circled back to the ideal patient profile it's so important it really is and so yeah you have to look at it and say how much of a lost leader Insurance you know am I really taking a bath or am I doing okay and there's some states that do better than others you know and so just depends where you're at and and the are zip code you live in

and um you know you're going to want to be able to to look at that so and then um you know the the other thing that and this is what I mean this is the pent Ultimate Way is get rid of insurance yeah like don't sign on the contract yep go out a network which also can be scary um years ago back to what you said about membership plans when when you when you're going on a network I remember talking to a a dentist in Texas

he was so terrified because he was we I was speaking here in in Utah with Gary tus about reducing dependence on on ppos and this doctor was terrified of dropping insurance and he's like I don't want to drop my insurance because I feel like I'm just GNA I'm going to lose everything right and I remember sitting down with him and be like hey you like you don't have to drop Insurance like right away like a light switch like that's kind of insane if you it's a

strategy right and I said why don't you start with building a membership program and adding you know a cohort of your patients onto this plan and building that recurring Revenue up from from your membership plan that gives you the cash flow and the confidence to then start reducing little by little the the the lowest paying plans or whatever like you know the the smallest uh cohort of plans that aren't going to be as impact ful if it if patients turn out right and sure enough that's

what he did and over time he was able to reduce a quite significant amount of his poo contracts because he he became way more confident from a cash flow perspective because he he was able to get patience on his membership plan so that's why I like it from from a going out of network strategy um for most practices it gives you confidence and peace of mind it makes you sleep better at night I like cash flow that's what it does cash flow good cash flow yeah

yeah positive cash flow cash postive cash flow yes yes you know honestly sometimes negative cash flow makes me feel really good too depending on what I'm getting with it depending yeah sure yeah um other ways is you can instead of like ripping out the insurance you could re renegotiate your your insurance contracts absolutely you know that's that's one one thing that which can be hard if you're a single location I know a lot of multilocation doctors that own multi-locations they have a little bit more leverage

when it comes to negot ating with their insurance contracts but that's that's a simple way to not simple it's not simple well it can be it can be simple though like there are like like best for Dentistry for example they have an entire team that's dedicated to renegotiate so if you sign on as say you sign on as a best for Dentistry member one of the things that they offer and there's other groups that do this too is that they offer free negotiation you know for

um for uh schedules yeah and so um you know gpos are great that way you know gpos have have a lot more leverage to be able to go in and do that kind of stuff but you know that and that goes full circle too Jordan back to what we were talking about about you know making sure you're in that 80th and 90th fee um percentile because as insurance do audits you know if and again I've said this I don't I've lost count how many times I've

said this do not set your fees to reimbursement rates ever ever ever ever because all you're doing is crippling your practice and you're crippling everybody else so all your other people that are in your area yeah oh it's because now the insurance compan is going to look at that and be like oh that's a standard for that area and they're going to lower everything from there they lower it that's why and it's one of the big reasons why Delta fees I'm just going to pick on

Delta sure but why Delta fees have actually gone down not up in the last 10 years because practice owners are are not they're not in the 80th to 90th percentile they're they're picking a lower percentage well yeah and and you have ignorant or and this is harsh to say but it is what it is you have either ignorant or lazy office managers who do not want to have to go and write stuff off take the five minutes it Tak to write stuff off sounds like a

great interview question when you're interviewing a office manager ask about this how do you feel about yeah where where should fees be set yeah I mean that I mean but that really is a conversation and I wouldn't be surprised if if there's owner ERS that were to sit down with their office managers and say hey can you show me like what do you what's the 90th per off for our area they won't know they won't know they probably won't even know where to find it there's

a lot of resources out there exactly so what they do is they base fees off of what the contract rates are with the insurance companies gez okay well and then often if uh they're not a practice owner they think I have this phrase that I say with my team they think with their own wallet and what I mean by that is they don't own a business and you're asking them to do a business function and they make a decision for the business thinking with their own

wallet meaning they're not a business owner they don't deal with the costs and the revenue amounts that the practice owners do and and yet they they're empowered in most offices to make really strategic business decisions but they're thinking they're thinking with their own wallet right their own scope of financial awareness which is you think about that Dan that's really dangerous you know if I were to go to any one of my employees here and be like hey can you make a business decision financially for for

me today and they don't know the scope of my business and the the nuances of of how to run my company and and look at finances they're going to make a limited decision and it's not because they're they're awesome people they is their experience that I'm talking about they're just not experienced to make a decision because they're going to think with their own wallet so that's that's something that we need to uh be mindful as practice owners and business owners that our staff may not be

able they may not be the ones to make those types of decisions when it comes to fees and and all that fun stuff we're talking today yep you know so wow awesome yeah I mean you know I was gonna I said I was gonna give another example the one that I really uh this one is for all on you know the all on docs are becoming very prevalent and it it can be very very profitable um and it's an I I just think it's one of

the coolest services that we can offer nowadays is to take someone that's a dentalist and you know really change their life and and we did a ton of those when I was at the dental lab lot one of yeah they're great uh it's incredible but for those docs that are doing that um where the fee is pretty high you know and and you can see it you know upward depending on your area you know it's W uh just per Arch you know you're getting into now

you know sometimes five digits you know sometimes easy you know inexpensive uh on your overhead never mind the fee that that's getting charged out to the patient and so just depending on how many you know implants you're putting in and the quality of the you know the the uh prothesis and all this other stuff sure it can get very expensive well insurance companies don't care how good of quality you're using or you know they don't give a rip of the components and any of that stuff

or what lab you're using so that's the one of the biggest like that you can take a horrid bath on something like that where the the difference can be shocking it can be upward of 60% um and you can end up actually losing money depending on how many visits it takes because any ever done lab fees and all that yep anybody that's my all on docs out there they know like some it's not always it's gotten a thousand times easier in the last what six seven

years with digital workflow I was going to say with all the digital technology but oh absolutely it can still be a lot of visits and it ties you up and you get it ties you personally up you know either in postoperative care or you know just follow-up care so there needs to be a that's one of the ones that's really dangerous because the number looks so appealing and we know it can be incredibly profitable but if it's an insurance one and your insurance has you contracted

at certain rates for that um beware and be mindful of that because uh you can take a big hit on the and if you're doing a lot of those you really need to watch what your profits are um because that's one of the bigger ones um that gets overlooked because it's so sexy and the numberers so big to start with is yeah yeah so just just a heads up on that one well yeah anything with with with anything on a PO contract we should be looking

at because of the massive uh discounts that they they force upon practices um yeah just because just because the revenue potential is there doesn't mean it's it's a good Revenue opportunity with with a PO contract right there are such things as bad Revenue funny I I say this all the time and my sales people always they they find that that sentence confusing like wait there's such thing as bad Revenue yeah it's called too much cost not enough to cover it yeah it's bad Revenue dude and

the same thing can happen uh in dentistry with with the amount of procedures I don't know how many procedures does a practice do it's I know you said you look at the 50 to 100 range but there's so much yeah we we do um so total procedures in in our office and keep in mind you know we're two we were three doc practice at the beginning of the year we uh one of our Associates moved on and bought a practice we're super proud of him oh

good for him yeah but um just with the two of us uh you know more or less the two of us we we do about 22,000 procedures a year wow so yeah and and you know a lot to man that's a lot to keep track of a lot to manage a lot to understand yeah it's bet so grateful for Ryan yeah well you know and you bring up a good point and that's that you know you see this uh boom right now in in you know

coaching or whatever you want to call it you know um which not dis similar to you know elevation Association we facilitators sure you know and businesses like EA um this is becoming extremely uh popular because of the services that are offered and the how convoluted and confusing running business is is becoming but if people are like me I'm not willing to give up my autonomy uh for me being a practice owner is Paramount and and and I'll take the headaches to have that autonomy that freedom

the I there's a lot of there's still a lot of docs out there that are that feel the same way but we also have limited bandwidth and so getting this kind of stuff they're like oh my gosh it's just one more thing you know what I mean it's just it's another thing and so you know we really obviously I mean we're we're a bit biased being a business owner in this world but you know go and get help like it should be part of your overhead

like you should include that the same way you would an attorney the same way you would an accountant like it it's if you want to make life more enjoyable and easier like plug that into your overhead and make it part of your cost of doing business because it will take so much stress off of your office manager a stress off of you it's worth it and again I'm not saying like they have to run and go sign up with EA find a good fit for you

find somebody that has the same that that that appreciates your ethos and you know the your schema of of business and and plug in and plug them in and you know and then the other thing is it should be effective just like a good attorney or a good you know accountant you should see some type of result whether it's monetary or whether it's you know time whether it's a decrease in stress whatever but that's like that's why we're boom Cloud you know clients is that we

could you could easily well not easily you could very diff through a lot of headache you could create something similar to Boom Cloud um and what the reason I I I slipped and said easy is because the Allure is easy it's like oh yeah how hard can it be well it's not it's not easy there's a reason boom Cloud exists right and so but for us that's part of our overhead because we we it decreases our stress it it's a beautiful format to make life easier

it takes it I'm not adding a job to somebody else in the office it's actually taking away from you know their stress load and workload these types of things like you got to work smarter not harder you know and and that you've got to plug that in when we're talking overhead like you've got to look at okay what's it worth to me to have less stress but ALS also like how is it hitting the bottom line like how is it affecting the bottom line if you

don't have a patient benefit plan if you're not having you know recurring Revenue that's affecting your bottom line you need to have that in your office things like that are important yeah and and to your point with with with like having a coach or I like how you guys call yourselves facilitators I think that's kind of cool um part of like our budget here at boom Cloud we we I have a coach right I have I actually have a mastermind that I attend two times a

month of other software as a service Founders and CEOs where we get together we have a coach and we help each other with our business look at numbers everything that you discussed on this podcast uh we talk but in our industry right in in our business and we help each other and it's been the best thing for me uh as a as a business owner and a and a a SAS founder the same thing for practice owners on on what you guys are doing in coach

and facilitate facilitating I like that one that's that's a cool word it's if anyone wants to know why we don't call ourselves coaching yeah I'm actually curious yeah well it's a different podcast we'll have to do that one we'll do that podcast of coaches consultants and facilitators no I love it but I I I every practice that I have ever worked with here at boomcloud when they have a coach a consultant somebody helping them optimize their business they run amazingly better than than practices that don't

it's it's obvious but sometimes not obvious when you're in the trenches as as a practice owner so Dan what's what's your guys's website to uh for elevation Association so people can you know pick your brain and if if people are like if practice own is like oh my gosh I have no idea on my my C per procedure or or anything we discussed today uh how do they reach out to you and and learn more about what you guys yeah Ju Just go to Elevation association.com

you can also reach us at elevation Association gmail.com um and you know we this is what we love to do we talk to docs you know every week we talk to docs about um whatever whatever's whatever it is that the the pain point is or the success point or whatever like we just like talking about this stuff you don't have to be a member to talk to us like like I I will sit down and chat like if I have if I if I've been given

any gifts in this life it is The Gift of Gab so uh me too dude yeah forever yeah whether that's a strength or maybe it's not a gift I don't know who is gifting I don't know but you know I I I we really enjoy talking you know dentistry and you know life uh we like talking about you know what kind of Legacy are we going to leave you know this is stuff that's important to us so we talk everything from family to uh you know

business decisions to retirement all of it like this stuff and we're in the trenches you know so reach out like if it's a pain point for you it's probably been a pain point for us so most likely or yeah or we know someone that has you know had that same pain point you know so yeah if if anyone ever has questions please reach out we we love to talk about it yeah you can and you can find the the website and contact information in our show

notes same thing if you're wanting to create a a membership program and scale that uh go to boomcloud apps.com and schedule a demo and see how our software can impact your practice so Dan with that said dude awesome episode to all our listeners we hope you guys have a rocking day