Battling Stress with Dr. Mark Costes

Welcome to the navigating dental insurance podcast where we don't [music] take from insurance companies. Here are your hosts, Mr. Jordan Comstock and Mr. Ben Tuinei. This podcast is sponsored by BoomCloud Dental Membership Software, www.boomcloudapps.com, [music] and Veritas Dental [music] Resources, www.veritasdentalresources.com. Enjoy the [music] show. >> Welcome everybody to an exciting episode of the navigating dental insurance podcast. My name is Ben Tuinei. Got my trusty co-host Jordan Comstock on the podcast today. What's up, Jordan? >> Nothing much, man. Just chilling. >> Excellent. You know, we're going

to dive right into it. You know, we're we we have the privilege of having a man that needs no introduction. You know, I refer to him as the Howard Stern of dental radio. >> [laughter] >> It's the man, the myth, the legend, and everything else you want to know about this this wonderful gentleman, Dr. Mark Costes. Welcome to the program today. >> Hey, thanks, guys. I really appreciate it. Never been called the Howard Stern of of dentistry before, but I do have, you know, several several

interesting guests lined up today including a girl that's sitting here in her in her bikini waiting to be interviewed by me. [laughter] It wasn't It wasn't my idea that she showed up in that outfit, but being the Howard Stern of dentistry, that that's what you have talking every [laughter] day. >> You know, I think it's like a Howard Stern is like sort of a neutral. You know, when it comes to politics, you have both liberal and conservatives that listen to him, you know. >> Oh, for

sure. For sure. >> And it's so cool because, you know, you are sort of the the clean version of that >> [laughter] >> radio show in terms of popularity, you know. >> Oh, wow. >> Um but I like your show like your podcast and all the stuff that you do. You've had so many guests outside of dentistry, which is it's been amazing. >> I listen I listen to your podcast, Mark, and I'm not a dentist. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I I do, too. >> I appreciate

it. >> And you had uh you know, one of your fitness mentors, which is something that that we want to talk about today, Bedros Keuilian. >> Yeah. >> And I followed a lot of those episodes and you know, just how everything from you know, he he talks about immigrant as you know, you know, me being from American Samoa, that kind of related to me uh quite a bit. But just his uh you know, he talked about a lot of the things that you do now in

terms of building your mastermind, you know? And I thought it was kind of cool that uh you know, the the outside of dentistry that are relevant to what we do as business owners in dentistry, you know? Which today, if you don't mind, we wanted to to kind of talk about the stress management component of being in dentistry, you know? In this day and age, I mean, a year ago, I mean, a lot of us just kind of want to erase our memories from last year, you

know? >> Yeah. >> Um there was a lot of fear. You know, I personally I had a lot of fear going. I was like, "Geez, you know, are we going to lose everything?" But then again, I found I I felt a little bit of excitement thinking, "Well, this is probably a good time to go back home, you know, to Samoa or Hawaii and just live on the beach, you know?" >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Is that where you Is that where you went? >> [laughter] >> I

went to Hawaii last month. >> Yeah. >> You know, my second home, where my mom's from. >> Yeah. >> But Samoa is like, man, it's like an unknown paradise, you know? It's uh kind of like, you know, the Philippines where where your family's from, Dr. Mark. You know, you have so many different islands. >> Yeah. >> And it's beautiful and tropical. But when you think about just sitting on the beach every day, you know, it's kind of for me a little bit of my stress management.

Like, you know, what it would be like to go back home and sit on the beach for, you know, a month or whatever. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> And let the business go into the tank, but >> Yeah, I I don't know if I could do it. You're too type A for that, man. You're too type A alpha [laughter] for that. I think Jordan is, too. I would I would thoroughly enjoy it on the third day. That that'd be when I started to I'd start to relax

after 2 days. You know, full day of travel. I'd still be super uptight checking emails for 2 days. >> Likewise. >> I'd be totally relaxed for 2 and 1/2 days, and then I'd be gearing back up ready to go and get back to work. >> Yep. >> I don't I don't know if that's good or bad, but that's just I mean I I just embrace that now. It's It's there's no use in fighting it. But I I definitely I mean maybe there's something that I could

do to prepare myself for a month off. But man, I I just just thinking about it makes me anxious. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Cuz I'm a control freak. We're all control alphas, right? >> Yeah, I'm in the I'm in the same boat with as you. I I obviously I love going to the beach, Ben. I um I I'm making a trip this year, but yeah, third day I'm like, okay, I got to get back to the office. I got to I got to I feel I

got to feel like I'm producing value and and all that stuff. But we are I mean, I think a big thing in regards to stress management cuz I think a part of that when you go on vacation, you do stress about your business. Um we're do we're implementing some things here to help me be able to do things like that so that I'm not as stressed. I just brought my brother on, and he's going to be running operations and making sure the ship's, you know, uh

running smoothly if like a like a well-oiled machine, and that is giving me a peace of mind recently. Um but I'm like you, Mark. I I go on vacation and I'm anxious to get back in the office because I like what I do. It's fun. You know, I'm motivated and driven. But you know, I just I I just can't sit for so too long, I guess. >> Yeah. [laughter] It's the life that we live. It's the life that we're used to. >> Yeah. >> Uh you

know, when it when you when it it comes to stress management, at least with the the types of lives that we live, like when >> [clears throat] >> when I was on vacation 2 weeks ago, um the nice thing about Hawaii is it's 4 hours behind us here in in Utah. Yeah, 3 hours behind Arizona. Um and so I get up at 4:00 a.m. in Hawaii. I get up I get up I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm a Mark Boss in Hawaii. I get up at 4:00

a.m. >> [laughter] >> And I I work. I actually open my computer and I start working from 4:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. and then I I go on this nice cool run along the beach for an hour. I'm back at night and then the rest of the day with family. And you know what? Um so every day, all 5 days of that work week, um I worked. You know, I worked at least 4 or 5 hours a day. Sure. But I felt fulfilled in the sense

that I had the entire day. I I was looking at my step count, you know, average for each day was 16,000. Um and, you know, having 16 hours of, you know, pretty intense activity on vacation, you know, when I got home I I was sore. You know, but to me that was that was a good stress management trip, you know? >> Yes. Yes. >> Um >> And I don't think it it it depending on your personality, right? It some people would consider that stressful, but to

me, if if I get all that done and I'm exhausted and then I can then I can lay on the beach without guilt and feel productive and and I don't know if that there's something wrong with me. Uh there probably [laughter] is. But >> I wasn't going to say anything. >> But I'm with you, Ben. I mean, that sounds like a perfect vacation. I mean, I I I can't shut it off, so when I go on vacation, I still like my internal clock gets me up

at 4:30, no matter what we did the night before. My internal clock gets me up at 4:30 and, you know, I I sneak out of the hotel room. I always have scoped out the gym. If the gym is lame, I run on the beach or I find find something physical to do outside. As long as I have a pull-up bar and somewhere to run and my running shoes, I know that I could work out anywhere. And I picked that up from Jocko Willink. He one time

he was uh he was talking about um how he ended up in Chicago one time and and uh there was nowhere to work out. So, he was walking around in the uh in the covered parking lot, you know, in the parking structure. And he he was like, "Oh, thank god, there's a pipe that I could do pull-ups on." So, he's like, "I'm good. I'm good. As long as I can do pull-ups, I'm I'm good." >> You do. >> There you go. You can bring your bands

with you. >> I bring my bands with me. I have a bunch in my office. So, if I can't get to the gym, I'm doing stuff. And then I have a uh cuz I think this is good for for relieving stress, right? I have a I have a stand-up desk here. And then I got a bike seat. >> Oh, cool. >> Dude, I don't know if you can see that. So, [laughter] >> I like that. I mean, I have a I'm standing up, too. I don't

I can't sit at all throughout the day. So, I have comfortable shoes, but I stand all day. I'm wearing my Converse right now, but they're not that comfortable. But, um I don't sit down throughout the day. That's another thing that I that I can't do. >> Me, too. >> [laughter] >> You know, uh >> I'm always standing up. >> Um uh Ben, going back to your reference of Bedros and the mastermind, he was actually my original business mentor, one of my great friends, and um uh

when I had another birthday with a zero following it, several years ago, I had a little bit of a mid-career crisis. And I was, you know, I was a personal trainer for 13 years. I played football in college like you did, Ben, but uh at a much smaller scale. Um so, I was I I considered myself an athlete. So, um I developed a fitness product. And I went online to try to find somebody that could help me market it to the masses, you know, cuz I

thought I was going to have the next P90X for sure. I was going to be the >> [laughter] >> going to be the next Tony Horton, you know, [clears throat] the And uh so, I developed this thing called uh Block Fitness. And and it was this cool like um you know, 15-minute super intense um super intense like uh uh high interval intense in intensity training, you know. >> Sure. >> Um >> And uh, I I came across Bedros online and on YouTube and I just called

his office, you know, he's he was already back then, many many years ago, he was huge already in the fitness industry. So, I called him and I'm like, "Hey man, um, uh, I actually called the office and uh, even though he was already kind of famous, I was like, "Yeah, I would like a consultation with Bedros and you know, if I have to, I'll fly out there and whatever." They're like, "Okay, hang on a second." And he's like, "Hello?" And I'm like, "Is Is this Bedros?"

And they they like literally handed the phone to him and uh, we had this we it turned into this great friendship. I joined his mastermind group for uh, gym owners, even though I had a practice, and he pulled me aside one day and he's like, "Dude, you're you're a dentist, you know, I'm I'm working with um, personal trainers and gym owners who would love to have your income and would love to have your your area of expertise. He's like, "What are you doing hanging out with

a bunch of fitness people?" I'm like, "This is my passion. This is what I want to do." He's like, "What else do you got going on?" And I was like, "Well, I have this dental assisting school." He's like, "Hold on. What What's the dental assisting school? What is that all about?" And I had 16 of them at the time. 16 dental assisting schools. He's like, "Let's blow this thing up and let's give it a year, see what we could do with this dental assisting school uh,

concept and if you're still interested in in promoting fitness after that, I'll be happy to help you launch your product." He's like, "But dude, I'm going to tell you, you got a product just like a lot of other people have a fitness product. It's like nearly identical and maybe not even as good." He's like, "So, let's try this dental assisting school thing." So, he took me through and he showed me how to multiply this thing. We ended up at the end of that year, we ended

up with 200 locations of the dental assisting school. We went from 16 to 200 and then he started coaching me on how to open masterminds, how to be a business coach and that's how I That's how I started all of this >> That's cool. >> all uh, DSI and and multiple businesses and he's still a really good friend and he he started a franchise called um Fit Body Boot Camp that has like 2,500 locations now across the planet. >> Wow. >> And uh he does he

does pretty well. He does pretty okay for himself. And he still does masterminds even though his his franchise is one of the fastest growing franchises in the world, he still does masterminds. So he has mastermind groups and just an all around really great guy. >> That's awesome. Yeah, I think um you know, for me at least, you know, when you're talking about the exercise theme, that's actually been one of my number one stress management um activities. Um so before before we we hit record, I was

talking about you know, when my when my my stepmother passed away in 2018, I set a goal. I was like, "You know what? I'm hearing so I'm on I'm overweight and I I don't feel good. So I So I set on a path to really start dropping pounds and really start getting my my weight in under control. And I lost 50 lb within 6 months. But then I started to gain some of it back. And then my dad died. And then at that point I was

like, you know, you kind of had a reset in in your mind. Like, "You know what? I really need to commit to this because I'm not even half my dad's age and I'm starting to feel the effects of being overweight, you know?" >> [clears throat] >> Um so I went on this this journey, you know, I started uh you know, in years past more 12 years ago or so, I I used to run 5 miles a day. Um and at that time, so this was about

2 years ago, I could barely run for 5 seconds, you know, without feeling pain. >> [clears throat] >> So I started walking 5 miles a day. So I was like, "You know what? I can't run 5 miles a day, so I'm going to walk." And I did that. I did that for a year and a half straight. Um and then I started to play around with my dieting a little bit and then, you know, a little bit over a year ago I I was able to

start this new sort of lifestyle with how how to eat, a lifestyle that I can commit to that I won't ever go back to the old way I of eating that I did before. >> Mhm. >> But I noticed that when I when I did that combination of, you know, eating the right foods, but also applying the right type of types of um activity for your body, you [clears throat] know, I dropped 100 lb and I can tell you that was probably the best form of

stress management for me at that time. I mean, it's you know, it's different for everybody. For me it was just battling with being overweight, >> Mhm. >> low energy, [clears throat] not being able to feel you know, the uh not being able to make it to 6:00 p.m. without, you know, being really, really tired. Um and that impacts your work, you know, it impacts work, it impacts your home life, you know? Um and I know in dentistry, there's all kinds of issues in terms of stress

that that dentists face, you know? And so, I shared my story in terms of how I, you know, worked on something major to change to kind of get my stress under control. >> Mhm. >> You know, as a dentist, Dr. Mark, what what is your advice for a dentist in terms of just the basic level of stress management, you know, they get in the office at what, 7:00 a.m., sometimes 6:00, >> Mhm. >> and they're in there till 5:00 or 6:00 p.m., four to five days

a week. >> Hunched over. >> Yeah. >> Yep, hunched over. And that's that's not easy, you know, a lot of people look at dentists and they think, "Ah, dentists are so rich, they have it easy." >> Oh, boy. >> It's not an easy career, you know? It's it's it's stressful. And when you're when you're dealing with people a lot, especially people that are unreasonable, that add to that stress, you know, um it it it's one of those careers where it's it's very fulfilling, but at the

same time, if you're if you don't have your stress management under control, it can be a nightmare, you know? >> Yeah. >> What advice do you have for >> [snorts] >> for dentists out there in this regard? >> I mean, I could talk about this for hours, you know, um there are so many factors that go into making our jobs stressful. And I can say this with full confidence because it took me 3 years to get into dental school. So, I had to do lots of

different things to survive, to make enough money to to pay for the next application cycle, you know? When it's when it's, you know, 150, 200 bucks for every application and you do 21 of them, that adds up. That adds up, dude, especially when when you don't have like a real good source of income. Um so, I've I have a different perspective than a lot of different denti- than dental professionals and and uh other dentists have because I had to scrap for 3 years and I had

lots of different jobs. I was I was in sales, I was a wine rep for a sales company. Uh I was I'm sorry, I was a a wine rep for a wine company, a sales rep for a wine company. Um I owned my own business, I owned a I owned a taco truck, you know, catering truck. Um I worked I worked for um, you know, a men's formal wear company, you know, like as a glorified, you know, I guess what what a suit salesman, I guess

you could call me. Um I was I was a personal trainer, I taught kickboxing. So, I did a lot of things to to make ends meet. A lot of not glamorous positions, but I'll tell you, there's nothing that I've done as um a person, as a professional to make money that's more stressful than dentistry. And the reason is not even, you know, it's even super stressful when you don't own the business. Dentistry in general is a very, very stressful profession because we're expected to produce perfect

results to people that have unrealistic expectations. They want it to be painless, they don't want any post-operative complications, they they want they want it to be perfect according to their specific aesthetic um preferences that you don't even know before you start doing the work. So, it's it's very, very stressful. And then you get into practice ownership and then you're you're having to be everything to everybody, right? You're having to be the perfect, most compassionate boss to, you know, eight to 12 to, in my case, 100

different employees. Um you're having to uh be the chief marketing officer, the office manager, um the the surgeon with micrometer precision. There's so many things that go on and so many different plates that we have to spin. And then we have to come home and leave it all at work and it and are expected to take a shower, get all the spit off of our forehead, and be the be the all-star dad and and husband. And it there's nothing more difficult and stressful in the world

that that I can even imagine. I mean, of course, there's every profession has its stressors, but I'll say that we're right up there. Uh um and at least we get the financial rewards to that are commensurate with the amount of stress that we're under. So, I think it's really, really important that dentists um recognize that um they are under a lot of stress, whether or not um they're they're using any type of specific coping mechanisms. They have to realize that after a while it's going to

take its toll on you if you don't release it in some form or fashion, right? For me, it's just a a really, really solid routine that I that I lean on. Um in the morning I get up, like you said uh earlier, Ben and Jordan, I get up at, you know, 4 4 to 4:30 every single day. 4:30 is actually sleeping in for me. Um and it and I was saying earlier that it's not because I'm this this like hardcore like super disciplined person, it's just

that's just my biology. My my body wakes me up between 5:30 and 6 6 hours in bed, and I can't sleep beyond that, even if I wanted to. So, I get up and I try to do something productive. Um but my morning routine looks like I get up, I have a a journal, the Four Futures Journal, and I open it up, and always start with gratitude. Um gratitude um like if you sprinkle gratitude on anything it makes it better, right? >> Yep. >> Um, it's it's

just like it's it's like uh it's like garlic salt, you know? It it basically makes every dish that you're cooking taste better. >> Every steak is good. >> Exactly. Everything. >> [laughter] >> The gratitude is the garlic salt of of cooking, but um so gratitude makes everything better. Like if you're super stressed, you can't be super stressed and angry and frustrated if you are practicing gratitude every single morning. So it's really really simple. I open my journal, I start there's a one, there's a two, and

a three. What are you grateful for today? And try not to get into that um that habit of writing the same things down every day. I'm happy for um my parents, I'm happy for my wife, I'm happy for my kids. You know, that doesn't do anything for you because after a while it's it's just wrote and you're not really reflecting. Like this morning it's like, what am I grateful for today? You know, um I had a friend who's who's uh son that we grew up with

um that grew up with my sons, he tried to commit suicide um two days ago. Uh thank God thank God they found him and and he's going to be all right, but he's got a long journey ahead of him. But today I I was super reflective and grateful for my kids and the fact that they're healthy and they're they're well-adjusted and you know, that um it was a shock when I heard it, but just having another self-reflective moment to think about him a great be grateful

that he's that he's going to be all right and to be grateful that my kids aren't in that situation. That's the one thing that I reflected on today. Am I grateful for lots of other things? Yeah, but today I reflected on that, you know? Um, so gratitude and then I fill out my four futures journal. I do try to do one thing for mindfulness. I do a 10-minute guided meditation on the Calm app every day and then I sit in the sauna for a half hour

and that is that is um a lot a lot of self-reflective and meditative time. And then meaning, meaning is where we focus on our relationships. I just do three things. Three simple things. I reach out to three people that I might have lost touch with. We we I just text them. I send them a little love bomb or whatever or I send her a little text or or maybe one of the kids I I have a little special conversation with them. Those are all Those are

all things that that I make part of my my morning routine. And then muscle, the muscle quadrant is is my workout. I usually try to get at least 20 to 30 minutes of of cardio enough to make me sweat and then I go into some resistance training. I usually do just one muscle group a day cuz I'm I'm a I'm lifting 6 days a week so I can keep it short. And then I go into the sauna. After the sauna, I head out the door. So,

you know, if I don't have the opportunity to to get through my my morning routine, it's almost a crutch at this point. If I don't have the opportunity to get through my morning routine, I'm stressed and I feel off for the entire day. So, that's my that's my main coping mechanism, but there are some things that are sprinkled inside this, you know, hour and 15 hour and 20-minute routine that last throughout the whole whole day. Like the meditation and mindfulness helps keep me focused and level-headed

all day, right? So, they always say like with meditation, what you're trying to do is increase the amount of time between stimulus and response so that you can come up with a better response. So, if Mrs. Jones is yelling at you because, you know, she thinks that number eight is a little bit longer than number nine or she hates the color of her new crown that you cemented in, you have the opportunity to take that stimulus and turn it into something positive or at least not

blow up and get defensive on Mrs. Jones and just say, "I'm I'm to respond in a in a different way." That's what meditation for me and my work out in my in my routine gives me up the opportunity to do in in addition to to decreasing my stress. >> That's awesome. Man, I have so many questions I want to ask in between that, but I know that we have we have to keep things moving along, but they kind of brought up a point in my mind

about, you know, when when we deal with you know, dentists, we know dentistry is very high you know, filled with all kinds of stress. We don't have good ways to manage it. There are a lot of other professions that experience the same level of stress, you know, and customer service, you know, when we're dealing with any I think any job where you where you're dealing with human beings the stress level can be very very high for the same reasons that you mentioned, you know, a lot

of people are just unreasonable. And I got to thinking as you're you're talking as like, you know what, have I [clears throat] been too hard on the vendors that I work with, you know? Am I [laughter] have I contributed towards their stress, you know, and and and I it brought a thought to my my mind when my wife she got a bunch of fillings done with a local friend, a local dentist here in Utah. We actually happened to run into him at the American Fork Walmart

Jordan two three years ago. And my wife had already complained to me, she said, "After I got this filling, my tooth cracked. I can see it visibly cracking." I'm like, "Okay, we'll go and get it fixed." But I think the very next day we ran into him, the dentist that did her fillings in the parking lot. And I was like, "I hope my wife doesn't bring this up." Cuz I know dentistry is so stressful and the last thing people want to do when they're outside of

work, when they're with their families, is talk about work, you know? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And I was and and my wife is so cool and so chill and and anyway, this dentist said, "Hey, when when when are we going to see you again? We miss you guys at the office." And my wife said, "You know, actually, we'll give you a call soon. There's you know, there's something I need to get fixed." And he's like, "Oh, what is it?" So, he opened the

door. >> [laughter] >> Uh-oh. Yeah. >> And my wife said, "No, no, no, no, no, not now. Like you're with your family, you know, you know, we'll we'll deal with it later. And but he kept prying. He's like, "No, no, no. Tell me what it is and that way I can be prepared." And she's like, "Oh, well, fine." Yeah, and I was like, "Oh, darn it, you know." Here it comes. I was hoping I know. And she was so cool about it. She's like, "You know

what? It's just no big deal." But but the two one of the one one of the fillings I don't know what happened, but I don't know if it even caused the tooth to crack or if it was just coincidence, but my tooth cracked. And so she opened he said, "Open your mouth. Let me take a look at it." In the parking [laughter] lot. >> Oh my gosh. >> Of course. >> Oh my gosh. >> She opens up wide and he looks in and she he's like,

"Come in. I'll take care of it for free. No problem." But I you know, in my mind and heart I'm thinking this poor guy, you know, if if I were in a situation but that's just him, you know, he really cares about his patients, you know? And I don't know if that caused stress, but it did for me listening. Cuz [laughter] I'm like you know, I don't know what he's going through, but I I hope we didn't add any level of stress to him during that

day. So I guess, you know, you know, my my response is finding your stress management a must. But what can we do to help others, you know? Because we're we're human beings. We're dealing with others that could be experiencing the same type type of stress level whether it be you know, the vendors that you're working with. And I I say this with um with caution. Well, I don't know how I want to say this, but you know, the insurance people that I would talk to >>

have to fight every day. >> [laughter] >> You know, they're human beings, too. And and what I found is that sometimes when you when you deal a little bit more compassionately when you're negotiating a claim denial or a fee schedule um and often times you don't know what those people are dealing with as well. So um I've seen at least my approach is to be kind, you know? Um and I love your gratitude starting the day with that because I do a little bit of that,

but not to the extent that you do it, but I probably I probably need to do it more because I'm thinking when I start my day with that and I'm dealing with tough situations throughout the day, you know, I can have a better perspective of, you know, what my mission is for that day in terms of how I'm going to respond. Am I going to be a jerk or am I going to be kind, you know, and negotiate diplomatically with people in a way that hopefully

will give a better response, you know? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I don't know. But >> So I have a thought. I I was was just thinking you mentioned I think customer service. I don't know who was it. Was it you, Mark, or you, Ben? So we obviously have a customer service team here. They deal with issues and problems, you know, and it could be really stressful if you let it, right? With people calling in. Um you know, and one thing that we've done here or starting

to do here at Boom Cloud is to teach our customer service reps humor. Uh because I think humor definitely is a stress reliever. I'm a I I like joking around. I like playing, you know, and having fun. Um and we're starting to see we we had a meeting yesterday and one of our customers uh uh success representatives, you know, have taken has taken humor courses and and she's pretty funny. And somebody somebody mentioned a a stressful comment and she cracked a joke. I mean, she isn't

she's not a you know, a stand-up comedian, but just cracked a simple joke and it broke the ice um really well within the team, but also when when I'm hearing people on the phones dealing with those those stress, immediately they're you know, when they answer the phone, they try to say something funny to make somebody's day better and get a laugh out and kind of change the the you know, the the >> the energy, yeah. >> the energy on that call, right? And I think I

think humor is another thing that that I use uh to cope with stress. Uh my brother is here my twin brother is here in the office and he's super funny. We get laughing uh about lots of uh things that we're going through, you know, as as twin brothers and as as people that are operating a business. But um I think that's something that um we use here and we're getting better at it. We're we're training our team on humor. Not you know, we're not wanting them

to be stand-up comedians at all, but >> [laughter] >> we do realize that there are there is power in regards with with humor in regards to relieving stress and and making people happy, right? And I think and really being memorable as a customer support person, you know, that's kind of how I at least we're approaching it here um in regards to that aspect of of our own business. But every business has customer service and and customer or whatever you want to call it, patient service, I

don't know. Um customer service. Um you know, and I think I think, you know, dealing with a lot of difficult patients, I mean, I know how that goes. I managed my dad's dental lab and we we had patients come to us all the time that were maybe struggling with a case that we were helping a a practice worth, I you know, work with. >> Oh, and and doctors are a dentist can be extremely unreasonable when they deal with >> [laughter] >> I I you know, I

I'm the first to raise my hand and say that I've I've been not so nice to lab techs in the past, so >> Sure. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Uh past Mark probably wasn't the nicest to to a lot of his >> [laughter] >> Pre pre-morning routine Mark probably wasn't the nicest guy in the >> [laughter] >> I've got a bunch of stories on that, too, but we won't go into details. >> Yeah. [laughter] Oh, man. Yes, I know. I know. So So we

talked a lot about uh sort of the the coping, you know, the stress, you know, it's it's there and how to cope with it. >> Yep. >> You have a few more minutes. I just I know your time is very valuable, but have one more. >> No, I >> have I have lots of minutes. >> Okay, perfect. Thank [laughter] you. >> As many minutes as you guys need. >> Thank you so much. >> Yeah. >> So, this [clears throat] whole idea of a couple of weeks

ago I I was reading through one of the Facebook pages, the dentist dentistry Facebook page. Can't remember if it was yours or if it was Dental Nachos, but it was a dentist that um was going to give up his career. He's like, I'm I'm done. I'm I'm done with dentistry. Um I'm going to go back to my my old career of sales cuz I've found that it's less stressful and I can probably make a lot more money there anyway. >> Mhm. >> And you know, in

my mind I'm you know, I'm reading the comments where a lot of the dentists were trying to give him encouragement saying, "Don't give up now. You know, you spent probably what? 3 400,000 dollars on a dental license to get a dental license just to get through school and now [clears throat] you're just going to give it away because maybe you know, who knows why, but you know, and and [clears throat] anyway, I I was I was thinking about that a little bit thinking, "You know, what

led to this decision was probably just the stressful nature of dentistry." >> Mhm. >> And often times, you know, even even me, you know, I get some stressful you know, maybe one or two situations a year that really really keep me up at night. >> Yeah. >> And I forget the beauty of this career. You know, I forget the positives of what why I do what I do, you know, which is the majority of what I feel when I'm at work, you know? >> Mhm. Mhm.

>> In your opinion, Dr. Mark, what are what are some of the positive things that we need to remember as it pertains to the careers that we have in dentistry, particularly for the dentists that usually bear the burden of stress in their practices? >> Yeah, I love this question because it comes up a lot and I deal with it a lot. You know, I have the privilege of being able to work with, you know, a couple hundred really really high-level dentists and and uh and inside

DSN, there's over a thousand of them, you know? And so, I I have this unique perspective where I get to talk to people that are just lit on fire by the profession and they're killing it and you know, they're about to open their sixth practice and and as far as you know, they report to us their teams are awesome and they're on fire too and they're just it's just an energy that they have, right? And then and then there's people like I was 10 years into

my career that are totally burnt out, wish that they would have done anything else like besides dentistry and are looking for a way out and they feel trapped because they have $400,000 in debt and um they're married and they have two car payments, three kids and a mortgage, right? So they feel like this is a good living. I can't make this much money doing anything else and if I could make this much money doing anything else, it would take four or five years for me to

get to the level that I'm at right now as far as compensation, right? I always go back to a reminder of why you got into the profession for the first place, right? In the first place. A lot of people got into dentistry and especially nowadays are getting into dentistry because they look on US News & World Reports and we're one, two and three as far as the best professions to enter because simply because of the amount of money that we make as dentists, right? Um but

try to go back and remember why it is that you got into dentistry in the first place. Another reminder is remember the first time when you fixed you know, Mrs. Jones's or Mrs. Smith's or um you know, Mr. Mr. Frederickson's um you know, forefront teeth and the reaction that you got and when it brought tears to their eyes and you couldn't help but get tears in your eyes as well because with what you were able to do with this lifelong issue that they had with their

smile when they're hiding their smile their whole life, you were able to fix that. We have the ability to do that, right? And if that doesn't get you, all you got to do, guys, I'm telling you, this is easy. All you got to do is give more of it away. Give it away. I know that sounds counterintuitive. That sounds like even more work. Have a free dental day at your office. Have people come that can't afford certain procedures, come into the office, have a little bit

of a screening process, make sure they're not addicted to drugs, or make sure that, you know, they're they're people that you want to be around, and do the dentistry for free with nothing expected in return other than to help them out. The more you give away, the That is the number one antidote to burnout is doing more for free. And after you get a taste of that, go on a mission trip. I have one coming up. Um we had this really awesome tradition in Prescott, Arizona.

We have one of the best 4th of July parades in the country. So, 4th of July is a really big deal for us, but a a couple years ago, 3 years ago now, um I I decided to give up the the 4th of July tradition that we had, and I brought my my then uh 13-year-old son with me to the Dominican Republic, and we spent 10 days doing missionary dentistry. And now we haven't hit, you know, a 4th of July parade um in our town because

every year we go back for the same mission trip, and he's he's 17 now, and he's coming with me for the last year because he's going to be in college next year. It's so special. Like, I always feel when I'm on the plane from the way home, you know, last year my division, I'm the prosth division uh there, uh we had we had myself and one prosthodontist and three dental students, and we did $175,000 worth of dentistry in 5 days. >> Wow. >> And that means

that means full dentures, partials, extractions, um and when you see when you put a denture in somebody's mouth that could never afford this in a million years. They don't even own shoes. You put a denture in somebody's mouth for the first time. They don't even know how to smile because they haven't had teeth for 30 years, and you have to lift up their lips and say, "This is how you smile." And then you you hand them a mirror. They don't look at themselves in the mirror,

but you hand them a mirror and they you show them how to smile. I can't tell you how many times they just break down in tears and give you a big hug. If that doesn't cure your burnout or your dislike for the profession, then you are a cyborg and you need to go do anything else besides [laughter] this. Cuz that cures everything. What we have been trained to do with our hands, when I get back from a mission trip and I'm sitting on that plane, I

think to myself, I got so much more out of this than the amount that that what I gave. Like I feel guilty. Like they gave me so much more than I was able to give them. And if that doesn't cure whatever it is that you're feeling unhappy about as far as dentistry, then nothing will. Um >> Wow. >> That that will right your ship almost immediately. >> That that's I I never even thought about that. That is such wonderful advice. You know, thinking about just volunteerism

is in general. You know, I served a mission for my church for 2 years and paid my own way to serve a mission. >> Wow. >> And I spent the majority of my time doing exactly what you said. Yep. You're serving. You know, you're you're volunteering to help people that that are in need. You're you're you know, we did everything from um uh clearing fields to building houses to you know, we didn't do of course you know, 19-year-old we were non-skilled. So we're just more uh

hard labor type of type of young you know, young adults. >> Mhm. >> tell you that even leading up till today, um the service aspect of my life outside of my career, when I'm helping people and they respond with a level of gratitude, you know, I always feel exactly what you said. I got out I got more out of this than what they did from the work that I helped them with, you know. >> Sure. >> And I never thought about this angle in terms of,

you know, filling going going back to your roots in terms of feeling a sense of I am a in a great profession >> Mhm. >> is just remembering what, you know, the good that you do and then continue doing that type of good. I can tell you from first-hand experience that what you said is just solid bulletproof advice because it brought back so many positive fun memories of times when I would do service for others and and just feel a sense of gratitude in terms of

knowing about the skill set that I that I have and for me it's not that much. You know. >> Yeah. >> But but still giving that part of your time and volunteering is so fulfilling and rewarding. So thank you. That that was that was beautiful. I think we can take a minute there and call this a million-dollar podcast >> [laughter] >> or episode I should say. Our podcast is nothing compared to yours. This episode has been amazing. >> [laughter] >> Thanks, brother. I really appreciate it.

I really appreciate it. Yeah, and it's it's crazy, too, cuz like you know, going back to this just briefly, I know you guys want to wrap, but just going back to this briefly, these people are so grateful. Um they don't have anything, right? We we've had people that have ridden in the back of tomato trucks for 3 days um just to get a tooth extracted because they were >> Wow. >> in pain. And people that walk with no shoes for 3 hours or 4 hours or

a half a day just to see if if they could get lucky enough to to to get some free dental work. Um and they don't have anything, you know? They don't even have doors on on their, you know, on their cement homes or or their or their um you know, stick-built homes. And say they have like an avocado tree in their yard. They'll take every avocado off their tree and they'll bring it as payment or or gratitude. >> Wow. >> We had this one lady I'm

a vegan, so I don't eat I don't eat animal products, but we had this one lady who I did a denture for. She went home 2 hours, slaughtered the only chicken they had, >> Mhm. >> and brought it back in this pot for me as thank you. And I was you know, I was so grateful and she's crying and she hands me this chicken, you know, as prepared like lovingly prepared and it's like how there's no there's no way that you could get that much gratitude

if if if you weren't making a difference, right? It's it's it's it's priceless. >> This I'm going to comment a little bit here too. So sorry Ben, I know you were wrapping up. But so my my dad does the same thing with Dinner Lab, right? He'll help people get free work when they need it. Primarily so my dad served his mission for the church in the Philippines. So he knows the Philippines really well and there's a network of >> speaks the language and I don't. >>

He Yeah, he speaks a little bit of it. Mostly the swear words now. >> [laughter] >> It's not always how it works. That's how it works. Yep. I mean I speak Brazilian Portuguese and I just say all the swear words now. >> [laughter] >> The the cool thing is he would always do that especially to there's a Filipino group here at least in Salt Lake City in Utah where >> We're everywhere, man. We're everywhere. We're like We're like a virus. [laughter] >> The best people in

the world. My dad gives free work to the these these Filipinos that always come in that are maybe they just moved to Utah or whatever and he's gotten a name for himself. They all come and see him and he always gives free work away to his Filipino buddies, right? >> That's cool. >> Because he served he served those people and he loves that culture and they always always bring us amazing Filipino food. >> [laughter] >> It's good. I like it. But I I couldn't agree with

you more Mark. I think that is definitely a way to get out of you know, stress and burnout in any type of business. You know, we've we'll try to do things here at at Boomcloud as well to help us mainly me cuz I it feels like I'm the one that gets in the burnouts the most. Um you know, and I think that's just a good reminder for me to remember to help other people. Um you know, as we as we move along our our lives and

and manage our businesses. So, all right, let's shift gears. We'll end it a little bit here. Uh Mark, you got a you got a conference coming up. >> Oh, yeah, we do. >> Talk about that a little bit and then uh we'll give people uh a way to register for that if you're still registering for it or you've sold out. >> No, we're about to sell out. We have about I think we have less than 50 tickets left. Last year we had um about 875 tickets

sold to the Dental Success Summit at the JW Marriott. Um and uh sadly we had to cancel that event. So, this year they've they're limiting our attendance. We can only have about eight uh 450 people this year, but we have Peyton Manning as our keynote speaker. Um NFL Peyton Manning will be there. Um and uh well, he'll be he'll be there virtually uh piping in virtually. I'll be interviewing him virtually in in front of the audience. And uh our 13 Black Belt speakers are sorry, our

13 Black Belt coaches will all be there speaking about a different topic on stage. It's just I I think it's one of the most fun conferences of the year. Um super high energy, super positive people, and tactical advice. Not not fluffy like here's why you should have a system, fluffy stuff like that. Like here is a system. Go plug this in literally to your office on Monday morning. Uh so, that's what you can expect. Um truedentalsuccess.com. It's May 28th and 29th and and uh a lot

of people are coming because they're turning it into a family holiday because uh that is Memorial Day weekend. And um you can you can just kind of be there for uh that 3-day weekend in a beautiful beautiful resort, perfect weather, and a lazy river, all the good stuff. >> Oh, yeah. I will be there, so I'm I'm pretty pumped for the event. I've missed events a lot. >> Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited, man. >> Yeah, I can't wait to see you guys. Thank you for representing,

man. >> Yeah, so truedentalsuccess.com, correct? >> Yep, truedentalsuccess.com and just click on the the registration tab for for dental success summit and that'll get you in. >> Cool. So, go there, check it out, register before it's too late, I would say. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. We're we're personal witnesses, that's probably the best conference that I've ever been to. And I'm sad that I missed it for the last couple years cuz I've had other commitments come up, but go to this conference and then on in terms

of the missions that you do, can people find out more with I'm sure with the Dental Success Institute and the DSN um So, if you're interested in those missions, I mean, Dr. Mark has some of the best collaborative groups in dentistry, in my opinion. Um check out his websites for DSN as well as the Dental the DSI Dental Success Institute. >> I would like to do the go do doing those missions, but do I mean, I can probably do some lab stuff. I don't know if

you guys need lab dudes. >> Oh, 100% yes. >> I mean, I might be rusty at it, but I can I bet you I can It's like riding a bike, right? >> Yeah, especially the one to the DR cuz we have a full prosth team that that we take with us, so anytime, man. >> Yeah, that'd be cool. >> Yeah. >> Awesome. Dr. Mark, it's been an honor. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. We feel We feel fortunate and and and lucky

that you were being willing to come on our podcast again. And uh gosh, we just wish you the very best and thank you so much for the wonderful advice you gave us today. >> Thank you guys so much. I I really really appreciate the invitation. It's great to see you, Ben, even though there's less of you to see. It's great to see you again. And Jordan, as always, man, it's it's it's it's it's a true pleasure to be friends with you guys. >> Likewise, Mark. >>

Take care, everybody. Thank you, Dr. Mark. >> Rock on. >> everybody. >> Rock on. >> [laughter]