Recession in Dentistry - Tips on riding the wave until markets settle

[music] >> Welcome to the navigating dental insurance podcast, where we don't take [music] from insurance companies. Here are your hosts, Mr. Jordan Comstock and Mr. Ben Tuinei. >> Welcome to another exciting episode of the navigating dental insurance podcast. My name is Ben Tuinei. Got my co-host Jordan who's sitting next to me on the camera here. What's up, Jordan? >> What's up, Ben? Calling from the RV today. >> Yes. >> So, quick disclaimer, as I was calling from my phone waiting to get a haircut. >> Um,

you might hear Jordan in and out in terms of his audio, which is okay. You know, we'll make sure that we scrub out and edit out a lot of that, but you know, it's it's always fun to to do the podcast with you, Jordan, because when we do it solo with another guest without each other, it's just it's just boring, right? >> Not that our guests are boring. >> But [laughter] >> [clears throat] >> we make it interesting when we do it together. >> When we're

together, we party, Ben. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, [laughter] man. Well, we've been doing it all We've been recording webinars for a long time, you know, I I think that's appropriate, right? >> Totally. Absolutely. 100%. Well, today's going to be a quick episode. Jordan's getting ready to take his girls up to Snowbird Canyon out here in Utah. >> Snowbird Canyon, yep. Up in the RV. Going to go hang out, camp, and play in the river, and just chill. >> Be 15, 10 to 15° cooler than it

is here in the valley, which is always a nice thing. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um, so you know, as we wind up wind down summer, you know, a lot of families are looking to do a lot of fun things throughout the year. Love to hear from many of you some some cool ideas. We kind of do the same things every year and it's like >> I know, me too. >> different. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we do we do the same stuff. I But yeah,

we I'd like to figure out cooler places to go vacation. >> Absolutely. Well, cool. So, today's topic as indicated in the title, uh is dropping dental insurance PPOs, HMOs, whatever. [snorts] Is it a good idea to do that during a recession? Now, according to the financial markets, we're in a recession, but the question becomes is it I mean, it doesn't even feel like it, right? Well, maybe it feels like it. >> I don't know. May- I I I I wonder for some families if they're feeling

the pinch, right? I know that with gas being above $5 a gallon most parts of the the country. Like I You know what? Jordan, when whenever you see like a $4.98 advertised, that I've I've never gotten that great of gas in over 10 years. Our cars have always required minimum the mid-tier or the high-tier octane. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah. >> And so, we're always paying $6 or $5.50 for gas and and diesel, almost $6 for my truck. >> Yeah, I I mean, I I'm in my

motorhome right now and I think I fill it up last time and it was almost 300 bucks. >> Oh, jeez. >> [laughter] >> It's so much. It's ridiculous, yeah. >> You know what? It's interesting, you know, it's like we're in a recession. Back in 2008, I felt that one. That one was hard. >> I felt that one, too. Yeah, I felt I was at the dental lab at the time and I really we really felt that one. >> Yeah, business-wise, everything slowed down. Things didn't get

expensive. I don't remember I know gas kind of went up and down, but groceries and all the things that we're experiencing today, um financially, we didn't see that. We just saw less business and well, income started to drop, right? I think that's what we >> Yeah. were really hit with. Um So, I guess that becomes a question, you know, in our world, you and I, we don't we don't really see what we saw back then, you know, I think many business owners would say the same

thing. Most business owners, I should say. But, for for everybody else, like that has a common PPO plan, if you if you go out of network, is it a good idea? What What do you think, Jordan? From what you see with your clients and networking? You know, in what we know about today's recession, is it a good Do you think it's a good idea to drop insurance or not? >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I think in every practice that's come in to us right now, I would

say like 98% of them, maybe more, um are coming in and the main strategy that they want to do is is drop insurance. Um that's what they're starting to do right now. I think there's there's smart ways to do it, and there's uh crazy ways to do it. Most everyone though that is coming, at least calling my team, and um chatting with us, you know, that that's that's still their main strategy. Um and here's why, cuz in this recession, it's kind of a strange inflation is

increasing. Episodes on this where um insurance companies are are getting more challenging to work with, right? They're they're becoming more challenging to work with. They're denying more, they're delaying more. Um I think they're forcing more to you know, decreasing of discounts, so um I think that's kind of why you're we're seeing, at least, um over at BoomCloud, uh practices wanting still wanting to reduce dependence on on insurance, because it's just it doesn't make sense in in this economy right now. >> Right. Totally. >> [clears throat]

>> Absolutely. You know, I um I don't we have some clients that are looking to drop insurance and um the advice that they're getting from even their um money managers, right? Is that it's it's okay, you know, the economy's actually not slipping as heavily as it was back 10 years ago, you know, the the 2008 and 9 recession. And I guess the concern becomes if I'm a PPO patient and I like you as a dentist, I have history with you and you drop my insurance plan,

now I need to see you out of network. Are the majority of the patients going to protest that? And coincidentally, we've had clients dropping insurance all [snorts] year. Every month we have 10 to 20 clients that are walking out of network with certain PPOs. And the rate of patient attrition, it doesn't seem to be any different than it's been in years past, right? >> Yeah. >> But [clears throat] leading into the future, it's kind of like, well, when is this recession actually going to be bad

enough for us to feel it? Um well, let's look at the stock market. Stock market hasn't to So, the the Dow Jones is 31,962 right now. Um the S&P 500 is at 3,969. And my market manager um money manager said that if it hits 3,800, no, 3,700, the S&P 500 you want to slow pace and you know, not buy a lot. >> Yeah. >> Um if it hits 3,600, buy. You know, that is a trigger for you to buy buy buy buy buy. So, >> Sure.

>> S&P went down to 30 3,800. It came very close to 3,700 and then it bounced right back. You know, now it's at 3,900 and it's like, well, I guess I missed that opportunity. But who knows? Nobody knows when it's going to come down in the future. So, I guess that's you know, we're going based upon current economic conditions. And yeah, it is a crunch for a lot of people in terms of the financial the the inflation issues. Um but looks like, you know, the overall

spending seems to be it's down a little bit, but overall from a business perspective, people are still doing dentistry, right? >> Yeah. People are still doing dentistry. I mean, at least with the on our platform, we we're seeing you know, uh [clears throat] like membership sign-ups at least on the up and up, right? I haven't seen that go on in a in a long time. That's always just been kind of going up up and to the left, right? For for membership sign-ups. And you know, you

know an interesting thing because memberships and subscription revenue, I think is an amazing tool in a in a recession market for any type of business, but specifically in this case, dentistry. Um cuz number one, I've I've seen what happens in recessions in dentistry with and without you know, predictable recurring revenue from these membership plans. But you know what's what's really fascinating to me right now? I've been looking out outside of dentistry lately um in other markets and watching what other, you know, companies are doing um

in regards to subscription revenue and like membership plans. So, BMW, I think is is about ready to launch or has launched uh one of their subscription plans. And part of their features in their cars are they're they're going to charge a subscription for for seat heaters, you know. >> serious? >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a big deal. >> Wow. I I know when I had my last BMW, the subscription was for Sirius XM or whatever they call that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That audio the listening

thing. And then the other subscription was for the annual updates to your navigation. If you don't you have to pay like something towards 2000 a year to get it updated. And I always thought screw that. I'm going to use my phone, you know. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah. I mean I pay I pay subscription. Yeah, I the auto industry is getting into it. I I pay subscription for my I have a Tundra. And I pay subscription so I can like from my phone I can turn

my my Tundra on and off. Or you can lock doors. I can like for example I I traveled last week and I drove my truck to the airport and I forgot to lock the doors. And I I landed in Colorado and I'm like did I lock my doors? And I was able to get on my app and and lock it from my my app all the way from Colorado back to Utah, right? Yeah. But I pay subscription. Another crazy thing is I I just recently read

this and I've been I've been talking about this quite a bit. Taco Bell just launched a subscription plan. >> What? >> $10 a month. It's like the taco lovers >> Oh, man. My son is going to be excited about that. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's No, it's insane. I think the first quarter they generated a they went from zero to like a million dollars a month in predictable recurring revenue from their taco subscription. I think it's like $10 a month and they get

certain benefits. I haven't researched their their benefit plan yet. I'm I'm only researching number one why they're doing it because the number one reason why they're doing it is because well, predictable predictable recurring revenue is good in recession. It's good in a in a excellent economy. Um you know, and it it creates the stability, right? Even for a restaurant chain as big as Taco Bell. I can't believe talking about this. >> [laughter] >> Um I think they [clears throat] have like just under 800 locations across

the United States. And they're seeing the value of um subscription revenue, you know, it with taco with tacos. >> [laughter] >> I'm on I'm on the website now. Taco Bell launches first ever taco subscription. That is totally rad. Well, Jordan's frozen here for just a little bit. I wish I I wish you could see his face on all this information until now. >> Oh, can you hear me? >> Oh, there you are. You're back. You're back. Keep on going. Keep on going. >> I I started

posting earlier this week on about the Taco Bell subscription on on [clears throat] Dental Nachos cuz I thought it was appropriate. >> That's funny. What about these So, Jordan, what about these uh VIP programs, right? That that give you this elevated status. It's kind of like >> Yeah. >> I'm on I I fly Delta. That's my preferred airline cuz we're a Delta hub here in Salt Lake City. >> Sure. >> And I have the platinum medallion status and I I don't spend enough every year to

get the diamond medallion, but my brother-in-law has diamond. And then the cool thing is that when he has a layover, they will pick him up at the gate. So, right when you step off the plane to the jet bridge, there'll be somebody there with a sign with his name and they'll take him down the jet bridge onto the tarmac with the red carpet to a you know, a a luxury vehicle and they'll drive him to his next gate or they'll drive him to the the closest

uh Delta Delta lounge that is closest to his gate if he has time. And it's such a cool thing and I I asked him, "Do you get upgraded all the time when you fly?" He said, "Not all the time, but 99% of the time. Especially when he travels international." He says, "100% of the time when he travels international he gets upgraded to the lie-flat seats in the big cubicles. You know, and and and I think for an airline that's pretty cool, right? To get that status

knowing that you'll pay economy fare, but you get upgraded to you know, the first class experience almost all the time in dentistry. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> The interesting interesting thing on that too cuz I've been analyzing one of the companies I've been looking at for subscriptions outside of dentistry is Delta Airlines. And I have a whole post on this on on I posted the Hunt Dental Nachos again. Because I'm just looking outside of dentistry and what other people are doing and trying to bring that

back in that mindset of of memberships and subscription and and really start educating more on this concept, but even even I think Delta partners they part with what I've been looking at, they partner with American Express. >> Mhm. >> And American Express you can't just go get get that card. You got to pay a yearly yearly subscription. >> Right. >> I use it for my business. I'm sure you do too. And they have different tiers and and and I think one of the tiers is I

can't remember. I think it's the platinum card and you get this Delta Sky Lounge included in it and things like that when you go travel. >> Yeah. >> So so Delta with their partnership with American Express they're they're creating subscription revenue there. When I was on the plane too, you know, I get on the I I buy the internet packages cuz I like to work on the planes. It's a really great time where nobody's really bothering me. I can just focus and get some work done.

So I always buy the internet and I work. But I noticed too that now Delta is is saying, "Hey, do you just want to subscribe and pay us a monthly fee to have Delta internet?" So every time you come on the airplane, you've got Delta internet, you know. So I'm like, "That's really fascinating that they're trying to generate multiple streams of of predictable recurring revenue through multiple avenues of of membership offerings, right? So, I just I just think that it's really fascinating to your point with

in dental the VIP membership plans, that is becoming a trend. Um there's actually a couple trends going on in regards to like subscription dental subscription dentistry. Um the VIP the VIP offer where um I think the the patient pays and no matter what they can get in and if it's an emergency like they they fit them in they're priority they're priority uh patients, right? Is kind of how they handle it. Well, I was over in Dyckman in Colorado for the conference there. And and we we

signed up a practice from Puerto Rico. I think they own like five or five or six locations. Yeah, real cool real cool practice owner. And he owns five or six locations and that's what that's what they're doing. They're doing a VIP plan in addition to their like basic preventative maintenance plan. Um but they're doing a VIP plan because I don't know if there it sounds like they're in a really wealthy area and they're able to capture that that demographic. And that's the thing though there are

in every area there's always certain demographics from uh if you look at it from a financial standpoint from you know, poor to to rich, right? You can create plans that membership plans that I would say can cater to each of those demographics. You know, so that's kind of what these guys are are doing and um you know, again the main thing is they're people practices are wanting to cut out the PPOs because of of the it's like it's it's kind of a nightmare to work with

a PPO. I don't I don't know how practices do it, Ben. I get so frustrated. >> It's one of the pain points of our business is when insurance companies make mistakes. You know, the dentist wants somebody to blame and you know, sometimes we're the easy target with that. It's like, "Come on, man." It's like you can't blame you can't blame your your soldiers for what the enemy is doing, right? >> Yeah, totally. >> And and all around the insurance industry has set it up perfectly to

shield themselves from blame, right? Shield themselves from accountability. >> From a legal down to the legal legal you know, the down to legalities, right? It's kind of crazy what they I mean, they have a crazy legal strategies, you know, but I mean, another thing that I'm seeing out here, Ben, at least on the from the membership side on how practices are combating um um you know, working with insurance. One practice I I just spoke to the other day, they're like, "Well, like we don't want to

drop every every one of our our PPO plans." Um this this this doctor seemed a little more nervous. I'm sure you've you've dealt with that type of conversation more than I have. Where this this practice owner is like, "I don't I don't know like I if I if I drop them, I'm going to go out of business." And just a lot of fear, right? And we we sat there thinking, you know, with him and and we came to the conclusion is like, "Okay, for your insured

patients, then let's let's let's create a a membership plan for them." And and at the end of the conversation, we ended up creating an unlimited whitening subscription plan. >> Cool. >> Um that you can offer to really anybody, right? Even even the uninsured and the insured, right? >> Right. >> But come to find out, I start doing more research on this as as, you know, this is a couple months ago. Um and we I found businesses that uh in dentistry, so dental I don't know if

you call them dental practices or just whitening practices, but in Utah Ben I'm in a I think in Pleasant uh is it Pleasant Grove? Yeah, Pleasant [clears throat] Grove, Utah. I stumbled upon a practice that was doing only whitening subscriptions. No restorative care. >> Really? >> Nothing. It was just no is a whitening subscriptions. They're called We White. Yeah, they have 15 locations. A couple of them in Utah. They started in Utah and they charge a $39 a month unlimited whitening subscription package. >> Mhm. >>

And then they get discounts on a couple other like uh uh kits that the this practice is selling. But I think it's genius. I called them up. They have over 2,000 active membership patients on their whitening >> Wow. >> They're that this particular practice is a million dollar practice just on whitening subscriptions. >> [laughter] >> Oh wow. >> And the the most if you think about it, the most searched for term, you know, on on the internet for for dentistry is whitening. >> Right. Right. >>

You know, the and like like 58% of Americans are unhappy with the color of their teeth, right? Like it's a huge problem and these guys are like, let's just focus on it. Um but the cool thing is that if you're your general dentist, like you can add you can do the same thing probably a a little bit cheaper, too, than this particular, you know, um whitening office. >> Yeah. >> But you can do the same thing, offer it to all your insured patients. If if for

some reason um maybe maybe you are feeling the recession a lot harder than people in you you know, practice owners in Utah. Um you can still and you don't want to drop PPOs, you can still offer uh an unlimited whitening subscription to your insured patients and turn them into a predictable recurring revenue stream for your practice without dropping. >> That's That's a pretty ingenious idea. I >> PPOs, right? >> Yeah. >> So, that's that's something that Yeah, all these you got preventative care subscriptions, you have

perio maintenance subscriptions, uh Dr. Mark Costes, he does a a discount only membership plan, which is really fascinating to me cuz it's 100% passive income for him. And um even even after his like PPO patients, when they hit their maximums, he can put he can put um them on a the discount plan only membership plan in his office. So, we're seeing those take trend industry. Um and then the VIP plans that you talked about where it's like Delta but for dentistry. And not Delta Dental, Delta

Airlines is what we're talking about. Um you know, and then there's I've seen denture plans, denture maintenance plans. Uh there's a lot of things that you can do within your practice to create subscription revenue, whether you're dropping insurance or not, right? That's the beautiful thing about it is over time I think we're seeing this evolve in dentistry. Um I mean, there's even like small business plans for like for for example, my my business, BoomCloud. Um every one of my employees, we we we pay for a

dental membership plan as one of their employee benefits. >> Right. >> Um to Dr. Smith, he's a uh Dr. Anderson, excuse me, um from Essential Dentist. I don't know if you know if you know him, Ben. He's here in Utah. He uh uses uh our software, BoomCloud, to manage his membership plan, but we've created a custom This sounds weird. A custom BoomCloud employee plan on on his BoomCloud uh account. >> Well, that's nice. >> so that makes sense. So, um that's another thing, too. Like you

can you can target um small businesses and create like custom membership plans for for the owners and their employees to join. There are so many things you can do to combat insurance and to combat um the you know, the a recession. Or just, you know, optimize your revenue by, you know, increasing subscription revenue. There's There's I mean, I can talk about this all all day, Ben. There's There's so much you can do. Um sometimes, though, in the uh practice owners and just people in general, they

they they let their mindsets get in the way sometimes, you know, when it comes to dropping PPOs in a recession. >> Yeah. >> Um or or scaling as, you know, a membership plan to prepare for that. Um a lot of the times, you know, um I was talking to a dentist in Hawaii. Really really cool dude. Um and he he could not his his his mind he could not imagine life without working with a PPOs, right? >> Mhm. >> And I'm like, man, that's crazy because

obviously, I talked to a lot of people in the industry that are like, uh we want to get rid of them. They're horrible. It's bad bad business model. And there's there's some practices out there still today that, you know, in their heads they're telling themselves that they it can't be done, right? I even had a practice say that they're like, you can't you can't build a a million-dollar subscription plan from from dentistry. And I'm like, dude, I'm seeing all the >> Yeah. Yeah, we have to

get rid of >> [clears throat] >> PPOs as a subscription plan. >> A PPO is a subscription >> [laughter] >> Absolutely. And I'm I looked at the doctor and I'm like, do you do you know who you're talking to? I see a lot of practices across the industry and they're I see their numbers and their revenue amounts. There are million-dollar membership plans out there, um you know, that are growing so you know, their subscription revenue, you know, through membership plans. It does it take time and

effort? Absolutely. Does it take a different mindset? Oh, yeah. It totally does, right? Um and the first part of that is believing that it can be done. You know, it's and if you think about it, it's just it's just math and numbers. I think the this practice that has a million dollars in recurring revenue on our platform, they I think they have like 2,500 active membership patients. It's not a lot, right? It's It's not like It's not a ton. It's totally doable for most practices out

there. But, um I know some, you know, if you're listening, you may be a startup. You're like, "Oh, man, how do I get How do I even get to a thousand or 500?" Right? If you're a startup, you'll get there within time, you know. But, that's I don't know. That's kind of what's on my mind about um you know, how you know, combating uh you know, working with insurance through membership plans. And in recessions, I think subscription revenue is the best the best tool to get

to get any business through it. So, that's That's kind of what I had in mind. >> I like that. I think that's good advice. You know, in my [snorts] mind, I'm thinking um you know, one of the reasons why somebody wouldn't want to do that. And I think we're the you know, in our own minds, we're the ones that kind of feed us doubt on, "Well, I don't think that's a good idea." Primarily because you you look at it You look everywhere. It's like, you know,

when you when you go on Roku, you have all these subscription TVs like uh Netflix, Disney, um Amazon and all that. But, the the crazy thing is, Jordan, that I'm learning, is that we we become our own worst enemy when it comes to trying something new. >> We do. >> It's successful for others, but we doubt ourselves thinking, "Well, that might not be successful for me because I wouldn't do it, right?" And so many times, we're surprised when we give it a try. When we commit

it commit to it and and at least com- give it 6 months. See how it works, right? And I'm all I'm often surprised, too, when I get business advice and I'm like, I don't know if that will fit for me, but I look around and it's like, everybody else is doing it. And all the successful business owners are doing it. And then I give it a try and I'm like, so I'm so happy that I took the dive. I'm so happy that I took the risk.

So if you're thinking that, and I know that a lot of dentists think that way in terms of looking at subscription models, right? It's like, nobody's going to do it. Nobody's going to do it if that's what you believe. Yeah. >> Well, even even like, nobody's going to like, when I drop an insurance plan, you know, um nobody's going to convert over to my membership plan. I've heard that one, too. It's like, well, like, why are you like, you have you know, hundreds or thousands of

patients and you're like, you're making the decision for them before you even know you know, like, what the market will do, especially your specific um you know, practice. >> Yeah. >> Um per base. So it's like, whether it's dropping PPOs or even like, negotiating with PPOs, you know, like, it's it's it's a matter of um of just trying. >> Yeah. >> likely though, it's going to work out. >> I've never seen And Yeah, exactly. Try and test and give it enough patience. You know, be patient

with it enough to to let it be successful. >> Yeah. >> And you know, I see a lot of times where people try for 1 day or you know, like, like the gym memberships, right? We go out to the gym for a year and then we fall off, right? >> Yeah, that's a great example. Yeah. >> And there's so many so many things that that keep us from doing the things that we need to do. Um but we're it seems like human beings are their own

worst enemy when it comes to success, right? Or or or tapping into [clears throat] an area that could be very successful because we doubt ourselves, right? >> Totally. >> And that was the last episode. I don't think you were on that one, Jordan, but it was with uh the Dr. Jessica Metcalfe and she talked about >> the imposter syndrome, how >> Oh, totally. That is a real thing. That is a totally real thing. Yeah. >> Yep. Yep, we doubt ourselves and we kind of think, well,

hm, somebody's going to call me out as a fraud because I, you know, I think I'm a fraud, but you know, I think that's natural human nature, right? We we think we suck a lot of times, but at the end of the day, you know, uh fee- feeding yourself with positive reinforcement and uh >> Yeah. I read the book. There's a great book called Think and Grow Rich, one of my favorite books. >> Oh, I love that one. >> It's one of my favorites. In fact,

Ben, remember years ago when I was starting Boom Cloud and you and I were just becoming friends um and you invited me to speak um down in Rancho Cucamonga. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> I remember it was a study club. I don't know if you Yeah. And and like I I was maybe 3 months away of launching um Boom Cloud, uh you know, our platform, so it was I was a little early. But I drove down, met Ben down there, and um talk about imposter syndrome.

I don't have a fully finished product. I really don't know what my voice in dentistry, you know, was back then. Um I was extremely nervous, first time speaking. I remember calling you before and being like, dude, like help me out. Is are these slides good enough? Uh you know, and just being really nervous and in my head a lot, but on the way down, I drove straight down from Utah to Rancho Cucamonga, California. And the book I chose to read was Think and Grow Rich, and

by the time I got to you down there at in Rancho, um after reading the entire book, right? Or listening to an audible, >> Yeah. >> um I I was pumped and I I got rid of all those those negative thoughts I was telling myself. So, to to your point of, yeah, imposter syndrome is totally it's a real issue for everybody and it it in every stages of of life, right? And even success. Uh but that book that book is what got me through those those

early days where in my head I had no confidence. I had no idea what I was I had an idea of what I wanted to do in dentistry back then. Um but I I just I didn't know if it was going to work. I really didn't know BoomCloud was going to work. I remember thinking to myself like is this going to fail? And this is probably going to fail. >> Yeah. >> This is not going to work. Nobody's doing it right now, right? And sure enough,

I just pushed through those thoughts and it worked. Right now we're helping thousands of practices across the United States and patients, you know, helping a lot more patients than which is crazy cuz when I started, you know, BoomCloud I'm like I wanted to help practices more than anything cuz that's I knew that that they had their their problems in industry. >> Right. >> But the crazy thing has been that more patients are are benefiting from, you know, the the subscription idea of BoomCloud than practices are.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Which I I never thought of that, you know, um back then but today when you look at the numbers and everything it's like, oh practices, yes, they're they're um a lot of practices are are really successful, you know, on on with membership plans and on and on our platform. But there's so there's there's so many patients that are bene- benefiting from it, you know, and and I think that's a good thing. So anyways, that's my imposter syndrome thought. >> [laughter] >>

Well, it's amazing to see to to see your your career Jordan flourish into a beautiful a beautiful empire. And uh you know, we have very similar story. >> Well, dude, I tell real quick though, I tell everybody I can trace back uh I can trace back to uh one one person that helped me get everything off the ground and aside from my co-founders and everything but that was you Ben I I was telling the story >> [laughter] >> you connected me to like Gary Takacs and

Mark Costes and in the in the time when you know I'm trying to figure out how to grow a business and and do all that stuff and I remember talking to you so many times and those are the days about how how are you marketing how are you getting leads and all this stuff >> [laughter] >> and introduce me to Gary Takacs and Mark Costes and I got on their podcast and and literally you know that was the catalyst that like took us to market but

it was it was back to just I think my mindset of like networking and and meeting people and getting to know people cuz you can't you can never build a business on your own whether it's a dental practice or a consulting firm or software company or a dental lab you got to know you got to meet people network with people and collaborate with people you know and obviously now our relationship is is running the podcast and collaborating in the industry now but I I remember those

days when it just you can I can trace back cuz I think there was a there was a comment there was a on Facebook I was reading the other day and it was it was Gary Byrd I don't know if you know Gary but I'm actually going to bring him on the podcast so if you don't know him you'll meet him Ben but he posted he's like which is more powerful in business networking or like skill set and I said well networking because I can literally

trace back and and with my relationships and and see like who influenced what in my life in my business to to help me get it off the ground and and then there's obviously now more people that helping influence and that goes with any any business. You know, thinking about like my dad's dental lab like my dad goes in networks and meets people all the time and that's how he has grown his business, right? But um really I think networking is is is a very powerful way

to grow a business. Even if even if if you go back and back to our our topic earlier to growing a membership plan, right? >> Mhm. >> Um joining those networking groups in your areas like there's the BMIs I think or BNI is a networking group that is in pretty much every state that you can join and meet other business owners and and get them to refer, you know, patients to you or refer people to sign up for your membership plan, right? Um so back to

this has been good. We talked about recession, dropping insurance, subscription plans, imposter syndrome, and networking. >> Networking, yeah. >> All all of all of which are my all of my favorite topics. Yeah. >> Now, you know, going back to what you said about tracing tracing things back to the beginning, dude, you you're a go-getter, man. Whether I whether I was there anybody else was there, your success was inevitable. And all all I did was point my finger and you did all the work. I just said

check check this out. This looks cool. Look at this on the shelf. And you went you read it and you you tore it up. >> Yeah. >> And and I think that at the end of the day that book that you referenced, if we think big and we think successful kind of like what one time when I was just like you I went to an event up in Seattle and I had one bank account, one credit card. And you know, and that credit card did not

have a high limit. But when you check into the hotel, you have to swipe your credit card even though the event is paying for it. But they still reserve the the whole amount for the trip, right? >> Sure. >> So, in this case, it maxed out my credit card. And I took my whole family up and I'm like, crap, I don't have anything on my credit card. I didn't have a whole lot in my bank account. But I I went and I gave the speech of

my life because that's what launched my career is I gave that that talk to a group of people and Rick Workman, the former owner of Heartland Dental, was there. >> Yeah. >> And I gave a speech um and it changed my career forever. >> [music] >> Exactly what you what you talked about. I did it the way you did it in Rancho cuz I did it with confidence. I did a I knowing that I had nothing. I had nothing in my bank account. >> Yeah. Nothing.

Yeah. >> And then all of a sudden, boom. The career just took off. And I think that that advice that you [music] gave, Jordan, especially for that book, is applicable no matter who you are, what your setting is. If you're in business and you you want to get it, you got to believe it, man. You got to put your mind to it. >> You totally [music] did. >> But this is awesome, Jordan. I I think this is a a great episode, at least for me. It's

so nice to hear all the different uh >> [music] >> opinions and advice that you have on a number of different areas. Now, we're just going to go ahead and close this this this episode. Jordan has more important things to do like be with his >> to go play in the river. >> [laughter] >> Play in the river, man. >> There you go. But hey, our invitation out there for any listener, if you're a dentist, consultant, working the front office, back office, wherever it may be,

if you feel like you have some tips that you want to share with listeners, give us a call. Uh check out our websites. You can contact Jordan through Boomcloud [music] or me through Veritas. And we'd love to have you on the program as we build our guest list for this year and next year. We'd love to have anybody on here that has a piece of tidbit of information that might be helpful for the industry. Jordan, appreciate all you do, man, and your your advice and your

wisdom. Go have some fun with your girls and we'll check in with everybody again next week. >> Thanks, Ben. Good seeing you, man. >> Take care, everybody. See you, Jordan. >> Yeah. >> [music] [music]