*What REALLY happens when a dental practice drops its biggest PPO?* In this episode of the **Automatic Patient Podcast**, I sit down with Dr. Dan Nelson to talk about what happened after his practice went completely out of network—including dropping Delta Dental, which represented roughly **51% of their patient base**. We get into the stuff nobody talks about:
- What happened to the hygiene schedule
- How many patients they expected to lose
- Why going out of network requires a financial safety net
- How they prepared patients before the PPO exit
- The systems they built to reactivate patients and refill hygiene
- Why membership-plan patients became some of their most valuable patients
- How recurring revenue changes the economics of a dental practice
- Why you should *build the alternative before you drop the PPO*
Dan also shares the challenges honestly. Going out of network wasn’t magically easy—but seven months later, the practice was still growing, had added an associate, and had expanded into another location. If you’ve ever thought about reducing PPO dependence, this conversation is worth watching before you make the jump. 👉 *Learn more about Elevation Association:* https://www.elevationassociation.com/ Elevation Association helps independent dentists with community, coaching, systems, leadership, and practice growth. 👉 *Wood River Dental Uses BoomCloud to manage their membership plan – Create your BoomCloud account:* https://boomcloudapps.com/ BoomCloud helps dental practices create, manage, automate, and grow their own in-house membership programs while building recurring revenue and stronger direct patient relationships. *The big takeaway:* Don’t drop your PPO and then try to figure out what comes next. *Build the financial safety net first. Then make the move from a position of strength.*
Transcript:
Jordon Comstock (00:00)
What’s up everybody and welcome to another episode of the Automatic Patient Podcast. I am your co-host today, with me, as usual, Dr. Dan Nelson. Dan, what’s up, man? How you doing? Woohoo! We both got our we both got our
Dan (00:10)
I’m just admired of matching shirts.
Jordon Comstock (00:15)
We’re wearing our Hawaii shirts today, which is awesome. And before we recorded I was talking about the I’m a little nervous because we got the category one hurricane hitting Kona, which I’ve got property there and
I have a guest showing up today, so I’m like, good luck, buddy.
Dan (00:31)
Yeah, yeah. We’re raincoat.
Jordon Comstock (00:33)
Like, yeah. He like messaged me at one o’clock in the morning and he’s like, Hey, what do I do? I’m like, You when you land, if you’re still gonna plan your trip, go straight to the store and get like fourteen days of supplies just in case. Good luck. Maybe I’ll door dash you some stuff ’cause I feel bad because your trip is ruined. That’s so bad.
Dan (00:55)
PGW Your
trip to
Paradise
Jordon Comstock (00:57)
It
Dan (00:58)
is gonna suck.
Jordon Comstock (00:59)
It’s gonna suck, yeah. It probably. Well, I guess it won’t be too bad in the on the Kona side, but it still will be rough. Anyway,
Dan (01:06)
It’ll be
Jordon Comstock (01:07)
so that’s what I woke up dealing with today. but today I wanna talk Dan and I had lunch yesterday. You was in town, we hung out a little bit. And you’re g you guys are what, six months in being out of network with Delta? Seven
Dan (01:21)
Seven months. Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (01:23)
months now. so let’s kinda talk about
the current status of what’s been happening in the practice and you know how it how it’s been for patients, how it’s been for the practice owners, and as a as a coach or consultant, like how do you see things?
Dan (01:42)
Yeah, I mean it’s it’s
it’s actually seven months completely out of network. So we we’re we’re out of network now. We’re if he per served Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (01:48)
Yeah. Yeah, with everybody, right? So completely
out of network, but Delta was the big the big one this year that you you guys decided to to dr cut, right?
Dan (01:58)
Yeah, and I and I think for us Delta w would represent like a ’cause Delta was fifty one percent of our patient base. So that’s
Jordon Comstock (02:05)
Okay, so like majority of the patients, yeah.
Dan (02:07)
yeah, like massive, right? So like you know, looking at you know, I think with all the offices that we work with, I would say most offices are probably in that eighty, twenty, seventy, thirty range where they’re
Jordon Comstock (02:19)
Sure.
Dan (02:21)
There some of them are more cl upward of a hundred percent on their patient base, but being, you know, in network
Jordon Comstock (02:27)
Do you see that as a risk?
Dan (02:29)
yeah, it’s a massive risk. Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (02:30)
Because
it’s like our our reimbursements are tied to one PPO plan or or one one company essentially, right? That we don’t control.
Dan (02:40)
well, we’ve never seen it, just to clarify, we’ve never seen somebody be under unless they’re doing like Carrington or something like that, which is more like an umbrella anyway. We’ve never
Jordon Comstock (02:47)
Sure. Yeah.
Dan (02:49)
seen anybody just under one insurance, like a hundred percent close to
Jordon Comstock (02:52)
Got it. Got it.
Dan (02:53)
one. But that would be a massive liability. That would be huge. But even if you’re
not,
Jordon Comstock (02:56)
Yeah.
Dan (02:57)
you know, you still have there’s still a lot of liability involved with the changes that are going on because again, I mean you you have
some semblance of control, you know, you know, on what you can do on like renew renegotiations depending on
Jordon Comstock (03:12)
Sure.
Dan (03:13)
you know who the insurance companies are. But with the current state and the reason that, you know, and just to be clear about it, we have fee for service, you know, where we live, and we’ve talked about this before on podcasts
Jordon Comstock (03:24)
Yeah.
Dan (03:24)
on this before, where we live, our overhead is so high between mostly payroll, honestly. Like it just costs so much to live for we have to pay our people a ton.
Jordon Comstock (03:33)
‘Cause you guys
are like in a higher I mean, at least what I’m here in Utah and you guys are like in a park city type economy over there. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s
Dan (03:42)
Or Vale, Park City type, yep, totally. And
Jordon Comstock (03:45)
a higher higher higher cost of living and all that stuff over there.
Dan (03:51)
Yeah,
yeah, it’s it’s the the median home price is like double what most people, you know, would look at even in the
Jordon Comstock (03:56)
Sure.
Dan (03:57)
mountain west. And if you compare it to the Midwest, we’re about three times as much. So you know, so you can look at it like we work with an office a couple of offices in California in Southern California. Malibu is the most expensive office we’ve seen and the cost living yeah, the cost of living
Jordon Comstock (04:11)
Interesting. That makes sense though.
Dan (04:14)
here is about the same as like Malibu.
Jordon Comstock (04:16)
Wow.
Dan (04:16)
Except well, almost. but the reimbursement rates are a fraction of what they get in Malibu. So
Jordon Comstock (04:23)
W so would
you like okay that’s actually interesting. Like in cities like that, Malibu, Haley, probably Park City or I’m sure there’s there’s a ton of cities we can talk about across the United States. LA, yeah. What
Dan (04:36)
Just LA. I mean, even if you look at LA, you know.
Jordon Comstock (04:39)
are do you see most of the practice in practices in those types of cities that they they end up going fee for service or are they kinda stuck with the The PPO rat race, yeah.
Dan (04:48)
The most of them are stuck. We’re working with it’s awful. Like we’re working
with the pedal office right now in San Diego that they are I mean, they’re writing off
The I think we had a couple of them that they’re basically riding off a hundred percent of what they’re any profitability that was left, there’s no meat on the bone. A lot of seventy percent write off. It was pretty painful to go through the growth report with the owner, you know, and just show them how bad that they’re getting beat up. So the difference is is that and and this is what people want to look at is even as a fee for service office, our UC and R’s are are actually lower here because we live in Idaho, even though it’s a resort town, because it’s in Idaho,
The and this is what’s maddening is that you you can say, yeah, I still I have absolute control over my pricing, but you can price yourself out really quickly too. So you have to reflect
Jordon Comstock (05:37)
Sure.
Dan (05:38)
like what other offices are charging to an extent. and what we are seeing is like like if you take just the top twenty fees in our area, we’re actually cheaper than like we’re we’re quite a bit cheaper than like Phoenix, Arizona, or even like
Podunk,
Wyoming. Like we’re actually
Jordon Comstock (05:59)
Hmm.
Dan (06:01)
lower there. So we have to we we’re having to do a gradual increase of our fees. We you can’t do a big jump.
Jordon Comstock (06:06)
You can’t
no, no, no. You kinda like would you recommend like what? What percentage?
Dan (06:12)
Well, you should start with a like so one of the things that we do is, and this is a an elevation association, one of the things we do, and you can just contact us, we’ll be happy to give you this, is that we can give you a market report for your area, and that includes what the UCNR fees are based on zip code. So it’s called zip code pricing, right? So you
Jordon Comstock (06:31)
Yep.
Dan (06:32)
we can give you your zip code pricing, and then from there we’ve looked at it and I’ve gone, i i it just
It’s just not enough where we’re at, you know, just to cover everything, even though we are fee for service. So what we would say is take a look at that and then evaluate it based off, you know, go to your P and L and look go through your overhead and make sure that you’re covering everything. And then if it’s still tight, you probably need to do an inch up, you know, just slowly like you can either do it throughout the year or you can do an annual increase. You know, the old dumb rule of like two percent annual increase, that doesn’t work post COVID. So you have to take
Jordon Comstock (07:08)
Yeah,
with inflation rates. Yeah. Well,
Dan (07:11)
No.
Jordon Comstock (07:11)
’cause I was reading the ADA report earlier this month on the financial state of the industry and it’s like revenue’s grown one point four percent over the last five years and expenses have grown four point nine percent on average across dentistry. Right now that’s a thirty thousand foot view of the, you know, landscape of dentistry. Not every practice is probably feeling that, but
you’re probably seeing expenses go up and if you’re not if you’re only doing like a two percent increase it in in your pricing, it’s probably not sufficient to cover the expenses.
Dan (07:45)
No, not even close. And I mean we and I I talked about this, I think it was on your podcast. I yeah,
Jordon Comstock (07:50)
Yeah, we’ve talked about this a couple of times.
Dan (07:51)
but we we we’ve seen talked about this quite a bit. So if you’ve heard me recently you’ve heard me kind of ramble out these numbers, but we’ve seen upwards of of twenty percent plus on payroll because of the the crisis. so it’s
Jordon Comstock (08:04)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. With like hygiene primarily.
Dan (08:08)
a bidding it be there was a bidding war in about in twenty twenty.
three, twenty-four, twenty-five, you the hygienist basically for example, we have a an office that we’ve worked with in the past, again in Southern California. And that poor doc was like he was he basically he had a hygienist that had been with him for like ten, fifteen years and all of a sudden he found that he was out looking it was a male hygienist and he was out like
Jordon Comstock (08:37)
Job hunting?
Dan (08:37)
Creating
a bidding war for it, and so where he landed was and I’m not I wish I was making this up, he’s ninety dollars an hour, ninety to ninety-five dollars an hour. Is what and I said
Jordon Comstock (08:46)
Wow.
Dan (08:47)
you’re losing money on this, and the owner’s like, Well, I know, but it’s a lot I have to treat it like a loss leader because I can’t not have hygiene, you know, and it’s like, Well,
Jordon Comstock (08:56)
Sure.
Dan (08:57)
maybe you could find a different workaround, you know
what I mean? Yeah. That’s the highest by the way.
Jordon Comstock (08:59)
It’s like, is the doctor cheaper than that now? I’m joking. That’s crazy.
Dan (09:04)
That’s the highest we’ve ever heard. But even in
Jordon Comstock (09:05)
Yeah.
Dan (09:06)
even in areas that were traditionally, you know, significantly lower, and it’s settling out now because, you know, a lot of the
Jordon Comstock (09:16)
It never stays that way. Like we saw something similar to in in my ecosystem here with salespeople in like twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two where same thing happened, salaries went through the roof and bidding wars and it’s it it was kind of it was a joke, right? But it they never last, right? They c they’re they’re kind of these booms and then they they they they they’re not sustainable, but they pop eventually. Right? Yeah.
Dan (09:43)
Well, and it is a balloon state right now. Like if you look
at the overall, like everything’s kind of in a balloon state. We’re still
Jordon Comstock (09:48)
Yeah.
Dan (09:49)
we’re still playing catch up, even, you know, seven years later, we’re still behind the A ball with a lot of things in the in the economy and and it’s affecting the dental world quite a bit. So
Jordon Comstock (09:59)
Sure.
Dan (09:59)
just all of that all of the nonsense that we’ve been dealing with over the last few years is finally starting to settle out a little bit, but it’s still it’s still in
Jordon Comstock (10:09)
Still there.
Dan (10:09)
Every yeah, I mean just think about supplies. You know, if you look at supplies
Jordon Comstock (10:13)
Yep.
Dan (10:13)
it it we’ve seen a upward between and it’s a big broad range, but an anywhere from like seven percent increase all the way up again to the twenty percent increase in supplies.
Jordon Comstock (10:22)
Yeah, I’ve seen talk
talking to my dad and my brother at the dental lab, that’s exactly what they’re seeing too with their supplies and that just passes on to the the the patient, right? And to the practice. So it’s like, man, yeah, supplies are kinda getting out of whack. So
Dan (10:37)
Yeah, so
so as it pertains to overhead, I mean you you really it’s really imperative right now that the owners are going through and looking at their PL and making sure, you know, checking their top line, checking their bottom line, and then tracking, being granular and looking down, you know, the line and saying, Okay, well where where are we getting abused on on our PNL and what can we do? and that’s the difference that we have being out of network, is that we can actually look at stuff and go, you know, maybe we’d make maybe we do a two dollar increase on instead
a percentage, maybe we look at our most, you know, the highest volume code that we code out every every year and see we say, okay, so maybe Yeah,
Jordon Comstock (11:13)
Okay. Yep. The revenue producer, yeah.
Dan (11:17)
we just, you know, we do a thousand, you know, or or we do, you know, four thousand, you know, limited or whatever, and let’s increase that by five bucks, you know, or, you know, whatever. And just take these codes that are a low dollar code to begin with and maybe increase them two to five bucks, you know.
Jordon Comstock (11:32)
Hm. Smart.
Yeah.
Dan (11:35)
We can do that because we have that freedom where we immediately see that revenue come in where if you know, if you’re strapped by insurance, you can raise your codes all day and that does help. And I am a
Jordon Comstock (11:45)
Yeah.
Dan (11:47)
big proponent of actually keeping up with market and inflation and stuff, but but at the end of the day, you know, and and we get this a lot from from docs of this like, well, what’s the point? I’m just writing it off anyway. Well, there’s a huge point to it and it part of it is market, right? Like you need to
push that market. If you don’t continue to adjust for inflation, why would insurance adjust for inflation? They’ll just tell you to pound down.
Jordon Comstock (12:09)
Absolutely.
That well yeah, if you’re if you’re not adjusting for inflation, then you don’t and and your market, let’s say your zip code is the other dentists in your zip code aren’t adjust adjusting for inflation. The insurance company’s not motivated because they’re gonna look at data of that zip code and say, Well, we’re doing just fine in your zip code, right? If you’re not adjusting or if if I think we’ve talked about this too, where if if practices are only recording the adjustments.
in their practice management system and not you know submitting the the their a higher UCR fee to the insurance companies which happens a lot sadly. you know, so no that’s really interesting. Okay. So yeah, don’t look at the write-off and say, well I’m writing it off anyways. Like I think there’s a lot of optimization to do in dentistry given the state of the industry is expenses are increasing, revenues not increasing is fast enough, right, for most offices.
So no, that’s really interesting, Dan. What with like f from the patient experience, going out of network, what like what’s the biggest thing you’ve guys had to change? From verbiage to like mindset within your office? Like ha have you noticed a big shift there? Or were you guys kinda already doing stuff?
Dan (13:30)
We were already doing stuff, but I but the the biggest shift what’s been interesting with with this whole transition is there’s two big th you should have in the years prior be be setting up to exit, right? So you start to have
Jordon Comstock (13:47)
Yeah.
Dan (13:47)
conversations and you’re preparing the patients for the inevitable change, right? And the reality is is you’re gonna you you can pretty much predict who you’re gonna lose. Like you can look at it and go, you
Jordon Comstock (13:57)
Interesting.
Dan (13:58)
know, w
We break ours down by employer. So we look underneath the so we looked under the Delta umbrella and we said, Okay, let’s break this down by employer. Who do we have and what does their number look like? Yeah. totally. Exactly. So
Jordon Comstock (14:07)
interesting. This is Ryan’s in the back doing all this stuff, right? Yeah, I can see it.
Dan (14:14)
We we break it down and we look we actually an app built into our software suite, our EA EAOS, our Elevation Association operating system or operating software. We actually have an app that’s built in that will give you an insurance analysis. And so within that app and within that insurance analysis, we go and we look and we say, okay, who’s paying what under like say Delta, for example? There’s a lot of different plans that an employer can sign up for. It’s not just one, right? It’s not like Delta and that’s all there is.
Jordon Comstock (14:42)
Yeah, sure. Yeah,
they’ve got many.
Dan (14:45)
Yeah. So and what you’ll find when you go out of network is that some of the plans pay pretty good out of network. Like shockingly.
Jordon Comstock (14:51)
Sure.
Dan (14:52)
So what we were able to do with that is we looked and we said, Okay, which ones pay sucky and which ones pay pretty good? And you can then look at it and go, Well, like for us it’s the school district, right? The school district and the
county.
Jordon Comstock (15:05)
Yeah, of course.
Dan (15:06)
So our police officers, you know, our our first responders, our teachers.
Jordon Comstock (15:10)
So th
the plan that they’re on is is good at a network? It’s terrible at a network. Okay, gotcha.
Dan (15:13)
No, it’s a horror. Yeah. So of
course it is, right? Because why would we not treat our educators better?
Jordon Comstock (15:20)
Right, jeez.
Dan (15:22)
so which is frustrating, right? So anyway, we we look at that and we go, Well, you know, typically, you know, they’re gonna probably pretty be pretty insurance driven and so because
Jordon Comstock (15:33)
Most likely.
Dan (15:34)
And because their policy kind of sucks out of the network, it’s not great in network either, but it’s especially bad out of network. We can effectively say we’re gonna unless they have, you know, another source of income or another a secondary insurance or the delta is the secondary insurance, we’re probably gonna lose a lot of those patients. So we basically
Jordon Comstock (15:52)
Yeah.
Dan (15:53)
can look and say, Okay, we need to prepare for impact. What’s it gonna look like? And how many of these patients can we predictively assume that we’re going to lose? Because you do have to expect the worst going into it.
Jordon Comstock (16:03)
Of course, yeah.
Dan (16:04)
So you have to modify things for that, you know, and and adjust for it. And one of the biggest things we do, and and you know, this is I’m beating a dead horse on this, but it’s so important, is that we began to really push and build up our patient benefit plan. You know, having
Jordon Comstock (16:20)
Yeah.
Dan (16:21)
that was massive for us because we wanted people that were especially under these so Delta has a a self insurance, it’s really bad. It’s actually a a very yeah, it’s terrible.
Jordon Comstock (16:30)
Sure it is. Most
financial products like that are really bad. I’ve never been happy with them.
Dan (16:33)
It’s terrible. so
they pay too much, they get no coverage. And the get the per the the group out of the three between the insurance company, the patient, and the provider, the one that takes it in the chin the most is the provider, right? So the provider has to
Jordon Comstock (16:47)
Yeah, sure.
Dan (16:48)
write the most off, has to make the most consignments and concessions and it just isn’t good. So what w w we looked at that and we tried to move as many of those people over to our our in-house membership program, which
Jordon Comstock (16:59)
Mm-hmm.
Dan (17:00)
was better coverage.
Plus they could stay with us, you know, stay with us.
Jordon Comstock (17:03)
Yeah, it’s a d direct relationship.
Dan (17:05)
Yep, yep. So we really built that up. And that wasn’t just the year before. We’ve been working on that for, you know, a long time.
Jordon Comstock (17:12)
yeah.
Dan (17:12)
But we pushed pretty hard on some marketing campaigns and pushed it to the forefront of our website and and social media to kind of gear that up. But where it really came down to the nuts and bolts was the conversations that you have in the office. Like you can do all the social
Jordon Comstock (17:27)
Yeah, yeah, I would imagine.
Dan (17:29)
media in the world. We were talking about marketing yesterday at lunch and
Yeah. It it the reality is yes.
Jordon Comstock (17:32)
It’s it’s all a relationship business. You know,
even even my business, like running a software company is heavy relationships, right? So it’s like yeah, this the social media stuff helps like amplify or accelerate kind of your messaging, but until you s sit down with a patient one on one, that’s really where the where where where it happens.
Dan (17:55)
And we have posters up and stuff and bifold
Jordon Comstock (17:57)
Yeah.
Dan (17:58)
f handouts and you basically can’t turn a corner in our office without running into something about our patient benefit plan or something
Jordon Comstock (18:04)
Yeah.
Dan (18:04)
buddy about our patient. So like it was big that that the assistants talked to him about it, the the front desk talked to him about it, the financial coordinator talked to him about it, the treatment coordinator talked to him about it, you what I mean? The hygienist talked to him about it.
Jordon Comstock (18:16)
Yeah.
Dan (18:17)
So the it it becomes it becomes you can’t just rely on your marketing to take care of the business. You really
Jordon Comstock (18:24)
No, like the
d
Dan (18:25)
House.
Jordon Comstock (18:25)
Dan, this is how boring I am. I went to some of our practices that were like growing their membership plans like the fastest and the best, right? And I just sat in their waiting room for like hours and just watched the patient journey th and ex exactly what you’re saying is exactly what the the best practices do. The assistant talks about it, the the hygienist, the the the doc
And then the the front office, right? So it’s like and then of course they got everywhere they turn there’s information about it. So that’s what I noticed in in the I’ve sat in several offices for a few hours and I’ve just watched patient flow be and the doctors are cool to let me do that, right? I’m like, hey, this is a weird request, but I’m kind of a nerd about this stuff. Can I just come and sit?
Dan (19:13)
Didn’t come loyal.
Jordon Comstock (19:14)
Yeah, like can I come and sit and I’ll bring you guys like lunch and everything.
And I’ve done that a few times, because I guess I’m a geek. I don’t know, Dan but no, you’re absolutely right. That’s what I’ve witnessed across multiple practices that are growing really well and and taking it a little bit serious. And all of them all these offices that I sat in are that’s the plan is to, you know, reduce insurance completely. So it’s that’s the right mindset.
Dan (19:40)
Yep. Yeah. And it’s I mean, it’s so huge. No new patient and no patient that is either uninsured or is on a self plan or whatever should leave our office without a pamphlet in their hands. I don’t care
Jordon Comstock (19:52)
Yeah.
Dan (19:52)
if they have three of them at their house. They should every time they come in they need a pamphlet. Yeah. Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (19:55)
Every time. Yeah. ‘Cause I th that’s
that repetition is what’s gonna get like, you what, I should switch to this. I mean, I I’ve I even have a membership plan for myself and all my employees here, right? To the doctor. And then this is how crazy I am. I’m like, I’m not gonna do traditional health insurance, I’m gonna do a catastrophic plan and I’m gonna build an HSA. I’m not gonna touch the HSA for five years and I’m gonna build a fund that that pays for my my
my healthcare for the the medical doctor and all that stuff, right? Because it’s just when you look at these financial products, and and and insurance products, right, they just aren’t that valuable to most people. Like I think my plan, my just regular health plan was gonna go up a little over two thousand dollars a month. And it and I looked at like the the increase from the year before it was maybe fifteen hundred dollars a month.
And I’m like, this is insane. I would be better off if if I took that same amount of money and put it in an HSA fund and invest it and let it grow over f you know, a five year term without touching it and then going out of pocket, which is it’s kind of crazy. But that’s what I’m doing because when you look at these financial products and insurance products, they just aren’t that valuable anymore and they’re asking patients
To pay so much from dental insurance to health care. It’s like, what is going on? They’re asking so much money and then they’re hoarding the cash and saying, We’re only gonna it spit out a little bit and then we’re gonna put the rest in the market and grow it for ourselves, right? Like it’s it’s insane. But that’s that’s kinda why I’m like, I’m not doing this this insurance stuff. I’m gonna build my own fund because it’s not it doesn’t make f financial or logical sense anymore, at least for me.
Dan (21:47)
Well and you bring
up a good point is that you can fund your in house membership plan through others. They can spend their HSA money on that. So it’s
Jordon Comstock (21:55)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Dan (21:57)
it it it’s not precluded from from use. So
Jordon Comstock (22:01)
Yeah.
Dan (22:01)
we’re seeing more and more patients come in. It’s pretty cool, like w that are
A, they’re signing up for our patient benefit plan and then B, they’re funding they’re paying for everything through their HSA. So
Jordon Comstock (22:12)
Yeah.
Dan (22:13)
it it’s it’s cool to see that trend. And it’s probably there they’ve probably already been, I don’t know if that’s like an uptick in actually like people start taking out the you know and starting HSAs or what, but what
Jordon Comstock (22:23)
Sure.
Dan (22:23)
what we are seeing is that we’re our patient base is increasing th those types of patients are increasing in our patient base. Yeah. So and and you know
Jordon Comstock (22:29)
Interesting. Hmm. Well maybe
I should come up be your patient. Yeah, yeah,
Dan (22:35)
Come on, yeah, we’re taking care of you, man.
Jordon Comstock (22:37)
come up. I should come up to see you guys.
Dan (22:39)
We
the the other thing that that you know we h th there’s a a part of this that it’s not all it’s hard, right? Like the the the exit is difficult and I feel
Jordon Comstock (22:48)
Yeah. Sure.
Dan (22:51)
like we’re more prepared than just based on the fact that we’re
Jordon Comstock (22:53)
Most practices.
Dan (22:54)
yeah, I mean we’re consultants, so we should know what we’re doing, right? But
Jordon Comstock (22:57)
Yeah.
Dan (22:58)
but the reality is is that you can prepare for war, but once you’re in war, like it’s war’s still hard, right? Like you
Jordon Comstock (23:04)
Yep.
Dan (23:04)
can be super prepared.
we’ve been really fortunate that, you know, we’ve maintained our course. We’ve actually just brought in an associate. We opened another office. You know, we’ve been able to just pull this up. Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (23:13)
Yeah, congrats. That’s awesome.
Dan (23:17)
but the the the couple things that happened, and I could just kinda want to like warn somebody that’s like, okay, we’re gonna go straight fee for service, we’re gonna jump out, go cold turkey and jump in, you know, to fee
Jordon Comstock (23:27)
I’ve heard
practices do that. We’ve like in their few years ago we had a practice that called me up. They’re like, We’re starting the membership plan and we’re cutting everything this month. I’m like, Whoa, like have you prepared for this? Like,
Dan (23:38)
Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (23:39)
nope, we’re just doing it. Okay. Learn a l learn as you go, I guess.
Dan (23:43)
Yeah, and if if you’ve got,
you know, financial reserves and you’ve got a low overhead, I think that there’s ways to do that for sure where you could just
Jordon Comstock (23:51)
Sure.
Dan (23:51)
like cut loose and and let it run. But but for most of us, we need to have some preparation. And what’s gonna happen, the one of the things that you have to prepare for is to be prepared to pay your hygienist to do nothing. And because
if you figure
Jordon Comstock (24:07)
interesting.
Dan (24:08)
like for us, fifty one percent of our patient base is Delta.
Right. So we can effectively look at that and then based out of that fifty one percent, we looked at how many we thought okay, we’re gonna lose probably fifty percent of that fifty percent. Does that make sense? So twenty five percent.
Jordon Comstock (24:24)
Yeah, yeah,
’cause yeah, yeah. ‘Cause you got your your total patient base of a few thousand, I would imagine. What, like three, four thousand, depending on your size.
Dan (24:30)
Yep. Yep. Yep. Three thousand hip.
Jordon Comstock (24:34)
Yeah, and then so fifty percent of that, whatever that number is, fifteen hundred, and then you said fifty percent of that cohort. So seven hundred and fifty. Got it. Okay.
Dan (24:39)
fifteen hundred. So about seven hundred fifty. Yep. Which is
what we anticipated. We’re like, okay, let’s we’ve we’re gonna prepare to lose fifteen hundred. We’re gonna anticipate seven fifty. Does that make sense? So we
Jordon Comstock (24:53)
Yep, yeah, yeah.
Dan (24:55)
and what will happen is that you’re gonna get a lot that you talk to that you will say, Well we’ll see how we’ll have the cookie crumbles, see if we can afford to stay here. And there’s a portion of your patients that legitimately they when they do their financials, they can’t afford to
pay the preventative stuff, especially if they have a big family or whatever, you know. And so they will have to know
Jordon Comstock (25:13)
Yeah, of course.
Dan (25:14)
where the, you know, where that somebody’s in network. So those are the ones you’re probably going to lose right off the bat. But they’re all going to be some ones that love you, love your, you know, your your staff, and they’re going to be like, we’re going to try to make it work. They’re going to get their first bill. So they’re going to come in, you know, you saw them in October, you prepped them in October, and then they come in the next year in April. Now you’re out of network.
Jordon Comstock (25:32)
Hm.
Dan (25:33)
They’re going to get their bill and they’re going to go, we can’t do this. And they’re going to bail. Okay. So
You have two cycles then of Exodus. You have the initial one from let’s let’s say that you have your October. They come in in October and you’ve got these two cycles. You have the one that’s like, I’m this is my last time here, I’m not coming again. Okay, so they won’t reschedule, which makes it easier when they do that, because then you don’t
Jordon Comstock (25:59)
Yeah.
Dan (25:59)
you you can actually fill in the the with the spot that their appointment would have taken in April, you can put something else in there, somebody else in there.
The ones that are hard are the ones that are like, I think I’d like to try to make this work. So maybe they keep their appointment. They come in in April and they’re like, I can’t afford to do this again. And so they cut free. So you have to look and say, Okay, there’s going to be another vacancy in October.
Jordon Comstock (26:24)
That makes sense.
Dan (26:25)
The ones that are really tough are the ones that think they want to do it, get cold feet and bail the week of the day before. Yes. Yeah. And
Jordon Comstock (26:34)
The silent ones, yeah, that don’t really aren’t talking with you guys,
yeah.
Dan (26:37)
Those
are hard because then that leaves a vacancy in your hygiene schedule short term. They could they either
Jordon Comstock (26:41)
Got it. Mm-hmm.
Dan (26:42)
they just don’t show up or they cancel last minute, right? And so
Jordon Comstock (26:45)
Yeah.
Dan (26:47)
so what what we’ve seen is we’re running for the first six months, we ran seventy five percent I did the numbers on it, we ran seventy five percent capacity in hygiene. So we’re typically a ninety percent capacity hygiene,
Jordon Comstock (26:57)
Yeah, sure.
Dan (26:58)
right? ‘Cause you do have people get sick, people travel, people forget, people die, people, whatever.
Jordon Comstock (27:01)
Of course, yeah.
Dan (27:03)
You know, and so the fallout in hygiene is normal.
But we were see we were running about twenty five percent on any given day. Yeah, but you still gotta
Jordon Comstock (27:10)
So you’ve seen a little bit of decline there. Here’s a
Dan (27:12)
pay your people.
Jordon Comstock (27:13)
still gotta pay your people. my first thought is you guys have built a financial safety net with the magnitude of active membership patients that probably aid with that. And then two, the patients that do stay, what is the revenue per patient metric? Is that increased? Right? If you
Dan (27:31)
Yeah I
Jordon Comstock (27:32)
know that. I don’t I don’t know if you know it on the top of your head, but
Dan (27:34)
yeah,
yeah, yeah. Yeah. We Yeah. Well it it and I would say anyone that’s
Jordon Comstock (27:35)
I would imagine you’re tracking that with Ryan back there doing all this stuff. Is that what he looks like?
Dan (27:41)
listening to this, go back to the a podcast that Jordan and I did on the automatic patient podcast. We talked about we we talked talked about a couple of key point indicators that are my favorites. And annual patient value is one of my favorite key point indicators. And I believe you were talking to
We were talking about her last night or yesterday at lunch that she brought that up. And I maybe Mark Costas, you were talking about it as well. Because and you’re gonna hear it over and over from the experts in the field because that’s a massive it’s a great way to measure like the value that different people will bring a patient base will bring into your practice. So
Jordon Comstock (28:22)
Yeah.
Dan (28:23)
to answer your question, our patient benefit plan members, so those people.
are worth double what a delta patient was worth. So
Jordon Comstock (28:30)
Yeah. Sure.
Dan (28:33)
and they’re worth about fifty percent more than a cash patient.
Jordon Comstock (28:38)
Yeah, yeah,
yeah. The cash patient always surprises me because
Dan (28:41)
Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (28:42)
everyone idolizes the cash patients, but it’s like it’s good, like it’s a like mentally I know how docs think about it because because I’ve been in the industry for so long, it’s like, I got a cash patient, they’re my precious cash patient. But then when you look at the data, right, from what you guys are seeing, it’s like from a revenue per patient efficiency metric, they’re they’re actually not as as valuable as you think.
Right, from a from a financial production standpoint.
Dan (29:11)
Yeah. And this is just our office. We’ve actually seen it in other places. And I believe it was talked about again, you guys were chatting about it the other day on your podcast. Was as much as three times as much, depending on your market. So you’re,
Jordon Comstock (29:22)
Yeah, it just depends on the market, absolutely.
Dan (29:24)
you know, we were in Alaska for we we went up for one of our summits and we went up to we did a fishing excursion for one of our CE summits in last month in July. And it was awesome. I was with a couple I was fishing with a couple docs from Indiana.
And one of
Jordon Comstock (29:41)
Let’s go.
Dan (29:42)
one of them, he’s a freaking genius, like seriously one of the smartest guys I’ve ever met in my life. He he’s borderline savant and he’s he’s like, There’s no way that a patient benefit plan member’s worth more than twice than a cat or a regular patient. I’m like well, then even an insurance patient, and I’m like, Bro,
Jordon Comstock (29:57)
A cash patient, right? Is that what he’s saying? Got it, got it, yeah.
Dan (30:01)
it’s real. And he’s like, No way. And I was like, Okay, and one of the docs like gets on his phone as we’re out there fishing, he’s texting his office manager, he’s Could you look and see how much
Jordon Comstock (30:10)
Yeah.
Dan (30:11)
He’s
like he’s like sure enough, it’s he’s like, We’re more than double. And the other guy was like, No, there’s no way that this is how it is. And I he’s so he texted me about a week after we got back. He’s like, All right, you’re right. He’s like so
Jordon Comstock (30:24)
Yep.
Dan (30:25)
he’s like, Tell me more about this, how do I start one? What do I need to do? You know. Yeah. So
Jordon Comstock (30:28)
So good.
Dan (30:30)
But I mean it the the reality is is that there’s this whole, you know, you I think they call it the Amazon Prime effect, you know, where it’s the Costco effect, yep.
Jordon Comstock (30:37)
Yeah. Or the Costco effect is what I see. It’s like when
you go to Costco, you’re like, okay, I’m only gonna go in for that prime steak, ’cause I’m gonna go get dinner tonight. This is what happens to me every week. And I go in and I leave with like three hundred to four hundred dollars of of of of shit that I wasn’t planning on buying, right? Right. And I’m
Dan (30:53)
Yeah. That’s
Jordon Comstock (30:56)
like, Okay, every time I do this, I say I’m gonna go to just gonna go get the steak and maybe some potatoes for dinner
And then I come out with three to four hundred dollars worth of of products. It’s like Yeah. Yeah, it’s like Yeah Yeah. Yeah. And T V It’s like, I w
Dan (31:08)
Yeah, it’s interesting how your list grows the minute you walk through the room. You’re like, stick and potatoes. Like your wife’s like, stick and potatoes. You’re like, yes, steak and potatoes. And then you get through the room and you’re like steak potatoes and TV. Steak potatoes and TV. Like steak potatoes and TV and a water gun set.
Jordon Comstock (31:23)
I came out with a new PlayStation Five? What’s going
Dan (31:25)
Yeah, Playstation, yeah.
Jordon Comstock (31:26)
what’s going on? It’s that new Grand Theft Auto’s coming out. I gotta get new Playstation Five.
Dan (31:31)
I bought I bought
six hundred light bulbs. Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (31:34)
Yeah, whatever. Yeah. It’s just th
this it’s the nature of it. But no, that’s the that is the effect, right? ‘Cause
Dan (31:39)
It
is and th and that’s the psychology behind it. You know, we joke about it but it that’s the reality of it.
Jordon Comstock (31:43)
It’s so it’s
so true. Like even even Amazon Prime, like when they started, their average member was paying like three to four times more than just a regular Amazon user. And today it’s like six times more
Dan (32:00)
Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (32:01)
’cause they just keep learning how to dial it in, right? And it
Dan (32:04)
Yeah, the model works.
Jordon Comstock (32:05)
it really works, right? From Costco to and I know some doctors may be like, Well, I don’t want to be a Costco
type practice or an Amazon type practice. I’m like that’s not what we’re saying here. We’re saying that this is a more efficient revenue model f both for the practice and the patient. Not not you’re not becoming like a Netflix dental office, right? Sometimes that’s a pr a comment that I hear from practice owners like, I don’t want to be like a Netflix office or anything. It’s like whatever, blockbuster went out of business, bro. So let’s let it like it’s a good model.
Dan (32:35)
Yeah. Yeah, well yeah, I don’t I don’t I
don’t know you would why you’d spit at that, but that yeah, that seems a little strange to me.
Jordon Comstock (32:42)
Yeah yeah I I
I mean we hear lots of different reasons why that people may be scared of it ’cause i i it’s a fe it’s all fear, like we talked about this on one of our episodes too.
Dan (32:47)
It’s fear, right? Like i if we go back to Yeah. Yep.
Jordon Comstock (32:52)
Is fear and even like I had Howard Faran on one of our shows and h Howard spent a lot of time on fear, which which was actually surprising to me ’cause and it it was actually a lot of practical practical advice from Howard.
And but he spent a lot of time on fear and if we could only o just get rid of our fear, we’ll make better decisions and look at the data, like what you guys are doing. You’re only gonna make better decisions for your practice and your patience, right? And that ultimately was like the message is there but I know you and I’ve talked about this many times.
Dan (33:26)
Yeah, I mean it’s part of
that model that I you know I’ve been working on that you know the the the five barriers of success.
Jordon Comstock (33:32)
Yeah.
Dan (33:32)
The the here’s the thing, and and and bringing this back to the conversation about holes in the hygiene schedule, you know, because the hygiene feeds your operative side, right? Like
Jordon Comstock (33:40)
Yes.
Dan (33:42)
we did create an app. So I got frustrated to the point and it was kind of freaking out too. It’s part of, you know, speaking of fear.
There was a point where I was having so Ryan meets with our front office and then he comes back and we have a leadership meeting and he reports on what we talk about, right? What they talk about. And I would say a lot, hey, tell me what’s going on with recare. What are we doing on recare? And he’s like, They say they’re working on it. And I’d say, What does that mean? I don’t I don’t know what that means. And he’s like, Well, they’re working through lists. And I said, What lists? And so, you know, with in dental intel, they have
list that you can go through for your loss patients or your recare patients or whatever. And I said, okay, well how are we working through this list? And it was hard because Ryan’s like had a hard time qualifying and quantifying how they were working through the list. So what I did was I created an algorithm, kind of like an ACLS algorithm that says, okay,
Jordon Comstock (34:38)
Okay.
Dan (34:39)
go here. And then I I I base it off of psychology and communication experts. That’s my background. Yeah. And so
Jordon Comstock (34:43)
‘Cause that’s your background, yeah.
Dan (34:46)
I said, okay, let’s find out
What is the most effective way of communication? And what we found was the most effective way by far, 70% better than any other form of communication is texting. People respond better to text than any other way.
Jordon Comstock (35:00)
Yeah. I always do.
Dan (35:02)
yeah, so much better. So we said, okay, in this algorithm, we’re gonna create a text message and it’s gonna say, and then we put the barriers in, right? So that what what are the barriers to keep somebody from rescheduling or getting scheduled?
And I created this algorithm and then Ryan being Ryan looks at it and he’s like, dude, we can do better than this. And so he actually, again, our in-suite apps. He takes an app. Yeah. He’s like, come check this out. And I was like, What’d you do? And he’s like, you’re gonna like this. So we actually have an app in our EAOS suite that sh will allow the front desk to it populates the list of any active patients that are not currently scheduled for hygiene, any of them.
So, and then we can reduce it down to how many months it’s been since they’ve been in or whatever. But we typically go active is defined as someone that’s been in in the last 18 months. So any patient that’s been in in the last 18 months that is not currently scheduled for hygiene, it populates that list. Our front desk can then take, click on a patient and start to work the algorithm, and it’ll literally send them, they can take the information, send them the first text message.
Jordon Comstock (36:09)
Yep.
Dan (36:09)
And then based on the response, either they get a response or they don’t get a response. If they don’t get a response, they get they get
Jordon Comstock (36:15)
Another reminder or something?
Dan (36:17)
three text messages before it gets shuffled off into another pile where it says, we’re gonna leave this dormant for 90 days. Okay. And it yep, we’ll come back to it again. But they’re not gonna waste
Jordon Comstock (36:24)
And then remarket it after that? Great. Yeah, that’s a great system.
Dan (36:28)
any more time on those patients because they’re not getting three they’re not getting responses after three times. So now what it does is if they get a response, it
It goes down the algorithm so that they will be able to generate a text. They don’t have to think through it. They literally copy it, paste it, text it. And we’ve seen a huge turnaround in patients that we haven’t seen in these 18 months filling up those gaps. So now we’re these are patients that are are okay with us being fee for service, right? And we’re we
Jordon Comstock (36:58)
Yeah.
Dan (36:58)
are actively
moving through our patient base and the the boon here for me is that I can pull that app up anytime and look and I don’t need to ask what are they doing because I hate the phrase they’re working through it. I was like, I have no idea what that means. And so now I can look at it and go, they are working through it. They have had contacted, you know, 300 of the patients, they’ve scheduled 200 of them or whatever. And I can actually, you know, 150 are now in the dormant list, you know, whatever. I can actually look at it and I don’t need for them to come and report and go through these lists of like, we talked contact
talk to these people and these people, I can see who they’ve talked to. I can
Jordon Comstock (37:34)
Sure.
Dan (37:34)
see where it’s stalled out. I can see where it’s effective. so that’s been a huge thing for us. because one of the the biggest like I was saying, one of the biggest trials and struggles that we’ve had from going fee for service is is yeah we know we’re gonna lose patients, but it’s trying to fill those gaps up, fill the whole
Jordon Comstock (37:51)
Sure.
Dan (37:52)
hygiene schedule before they become problematic. And so if if if you’re doing this, if you’ve exited
e in even any of them and you’re struggling to fill those holes, usually you have like a quick fill list or something like that. But at some point
Jordon Comstock (38:07)
Sure.
Dan (38:08)
if you’re doing a big exodus like we did with half our patients, it’s going to be a struggle. You need to have something that’s smarter than just a, you know, I talk about these lists, you know, I I love I love a good data set, but you need to have something better than
Jordon Comstock (38:21)
Yeah, sure. Me too.
Dan (38:22)
a Excel spreadsheet or, you know,
you know, a hand handwritten list. So so it’s something that’s been really w again, you know, necessity is the mother of invention, right? So we’ve been able to create some some cool stuff. But yeah, I mean I’ll I mean that’s
Jordon Comstock (38:38)
Right.
Dan (38:38)
that that that’s been a huge that’s been a huge challenge on that front. but yeah you know I wanna go back and answer your question a little bit better too of like how does our communication go?
The flip side of the preparation conversations, now we’re on this side of the conversations as far as treatment planning and presenting. Remember, I’m an Air Force doc. I was in the Air Force where it
Jordon Comstock (39:02)
Yeah.
Dan (39:03)
wasn’t an issue. Like it wasn’t brought up. We did what was ever best for the patient every time.
Jordon Comstock (39:08)
Sure.
Dan (39:08)
It’s a little refreshing to be able to go back to that and go, look, we need to do what’s best for you. Here are your treatment plan options. And now it’s not dictated, well, will my insurance cover that? You know.
Jordon Comstock (39:21)
Yes.
Yeah. You can be like,
Dan (39:22)
So
Jordon Comstock (39:22)
hey, this is what you need. Here are the options. Here’s like if if you can’t do it all in you know, this month or whatever, you can string it out over a couple quarters. Hi Dina. Let me let me I’m just finishing up this podcast, I’ll bring you on in a minute.
Dan (39:38)
Dina, join us. Hop in, let’s go.
Jordon Comstock (39:41)
Dina’s partying with us right now So Thanks, I’ll see you in a sec.
Deana Zost (39:45)
I got y’all. Bye. I get five.
Dan (39:49)
That was the ultimate podcast
Jordon Comstock (39:52)
That was a we had a podcast bomb. So good friend Dita Zos just said
Dan (39:50)
bomb. There’s photo bombing, now there’s podcast bombing. So much cooler than photo bombing.
Jordon Comstock (39:56)
hi to us because she’s on our the podcast next.
Dan (40:01)
That was a nice that
was a slick promo for the next podcast, like
Jordon Comstock (40:03)
Right?
Now I gotta put make sure her podcast follows this one, yes. Sorry,
Dan (40:07)
Yeah, yeah. Don’t make it weird.
Jordon Comstock (40:10)
Dan, keep going.
Dan (40:12)
No, I mean that was kinda it. I mean th sh her timing was excellent.
Jordon Comstock (40:15)
Yeah. Sweet. Awesome. So
just to recap, build the financial safety net is kind of the what I’ve been telling practices that are doing this, right? Like what you’ve guys done, ’cause you guys are an excellent example of that. you’re it’s not gonna be free of challenges. You’re always going to have challenges, typically when it comes to hygiene reappointments,
Dan (40:37)
Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (40:38)
right? But making sure you have a system like you you talked about from
How you talk about pa to patients, but also a a follow up system that’s robust, so that you you’re fixing those problems. And then I would I would also say we didn’t talk about this, but I know how you guys operate. You guys use an operating system, you’re probably identifying these problems that you’re seeing and you’re you’re s solving them as a team, where most practices don’t do that, right? and that’s a whole other episode I’m sure we can do on
How you
Dan (41:11)
yeah.
Jordon Comstock (41:12)
how you guys operate, cause you guys operate very closely to how we operate here at Boom Cloud. you know, with with we use EOS. I know you guys have your own doctor version of that, that you guys have developed, which is kind of cool. So awesome. so final thought for our listeners today. Like it’s can be scary, it’s full of challenges still, but it’s still an amazing way to practice dentistry. What’s your final thought for all of our listeners today?
Dan (41:40)
Yeah,
my and and what I really wanted to get across on this episode was just, you know, that the the one of the I wanted to address up front the challenges, the big challenges,
Jordon Comstock (41:51)
Of course, yeah.
Dan (41:52)
but I wanted to be specific about one of the things that we’ve watched firsthand and be able to pass that on, and that’s the hygiene schedule, because that’s gonna freak you out when that happens. And it’s like
There are things that you can be doing, obviously to prepare for it. So again, the things that you named off are are huge and preparation
Jordon Comstock (42:10)
Yeah.
Dan (42:10)
is huge. But also like there’s a point where no matter what, you know, I love the the quote that Mike Tyson said that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, right?
Jordon Comstock (42:20)
Yeah.
I get punched in the face every at least once a year, Dan. Gotta figure it out.
Dan (42:23)
Right. So
So you should
have a plan for when you get punched in the face, right? And so
Jordon Comstock (42:29)
Exactly.
Dan (42:30)
and that’s the whole thing is is that at some point you’re gonna try to be preventative as possible, but you’re gonna have to be reactive also. And so knowing the counterpunch is huge. And being able to look at it and say, I’m not just going to randomly be reactive and panic and be led by all these barriers, you know.
Jordon Comstock (42:46)
Yeah.
Dan (42:47)
I’m actually going to look at this, standing in the face of these barriers, and I’m gonna have a reaction that is proactive, that is something that has
A pot. I’m going to make lemonade out of these lemons. And there are so many people out there that can help with this kind of stuff. And this is what really blows my mind is how many offices just try to go it alone. You know what I mean? They
Jordon Comstock (43:08)
Yeah.
Dan (43:09)
try to grind it out. And what ends up happening is some of them slide right back into insurance because they just give up because they’re freaking out and they don’t let things happen. And the the other little tidbit of advice I would give as we’re wrapping up is reach out to the other docs that have already done this. Talk to your
Jordon Comstock (43:25)
Yeah, I agree.
Dan (43:26)
colleagues that
Jordon Comstock (43:26)
A thousand percent.
Dan (43:28)
they they will be able to help guide you through the turmoil because there is going to be a lot of of turmoil following and any exit. So
Jordon Comstock (43:39)
Yeah.
Dan (43:40)
talk to somebody that’s done before they’re gonna give you some reassurance they’re gonna give you some guidance they’re gonna you know be able to point you in the right direction in a lot of ways and then Judas work with this work with a good consultant you know work with
Jordon Comstock (43:50)
Yeah.
Dan (43:50)
somebody you know and obviously like I’m an owner but I and a consultant but
Jordon Comstock (43:53)
Yeah.
Dan (43:54)
When you work with somebody that gives you those two things, both as a peer but also as a professional, that’s gonna help you so much. So anyway, yeah, that’s kind of the starting shot there.
Jordon Comstock (44:02)
I agree. I
like I do this with with I’m a part of a mastermind. I have a coach and consultant. Hi Lisa, we’re just finishing up. We just
Lisa (44:13)
Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (44:15)
The we’re just having a party today, Dan. Everyone just wants to join the show.
Lisa (44:18)
my gosh, hey Dan. my gosh. I didn’t know I’d be on a same link.
Dan (44:20)
This is
Jordon Comstock (44:23)
I didn’t either.
Dan (44:23)
Well listen.
Jordon Comstock (44:23)
Sorry. I didn’t know that’s how it worked, but that’s okay. with all of us all It’s like w this is it’s a p
Dan (44:27)
A podcast is coming with all of us on there. Like it’s gonna be a we we did that.
Lisa (44:27)
Okay.
It’s a party.
Dan (44:32)
So if you remember, Jordan, we did that. we did a big panel
Lisa (44:36)
Yeah.
Dan (44:37)
in when we were in El Salvador for one of our summits, we did a big panel that we had like James Heaton on there, Mark Costas was on there, Jared
Jordon Comstock (44:44)
yeah, yeah.
Dan (44:44)
Hill was on there, we had Ryan Isaac, Matt Mulcock, like we had this giant panel. So dude, it’s coming. Jordan’s gonna orchestrate
He’s gonna
Jordon Comstock (44:53)
Okay.
Dan (44:53)
he’s gonna pull all of us together into a single podcast. This is gonna be sick.
Jordon Comstock (44:57)
That
would be actually pretty fun. So
with we’re gonna end here, Lisa. So you’re more than happy to chill with us and be a pretty face on our screens.
Lisa (45:04)
I will. I’ll hang out.
Jordon Comstock (45:06)
But with with that said, Dan, I think masterminds are important. I’m a part of a mastermind. I’ve always been one. You guys do at Elevation Association, you guys do that. And
Dan (45:14)
Yeah.
Jordon Comstock (45:15)
yeah, which is awesome. I highly encourage our listeners to go check out Elevation Association. And if you don’t have a membership plan, because membership patients
Spend way more than cash and PPO patience. Come check us out at Boom Cloud. We got some cool things that we’re doing to help practices in this time of weird economic stress. So check us out there and Dan, with that said, man, we hope everyone has a rocking day.
Dan (45:38)
Alright on, cheers.
Lisa (45:38)
Okay, yeah.
